My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

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BobManifold
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#31

Post by BobManifold »

http://youtu.be/Dq6k0SfsXFQ
Video of the project idling
Hopefully have time this week to mount sidecar
Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
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Norbert R
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#32

Post by Norbert R »

Looking good !! You are right, you're gonna scare the daylights outa the competition with that machine :orange
Sounds like you're from the UK ?
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BobManifold
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#33

Post by BobManifold »

Norbert R wrote:Looking good !! You are right, you're gonna scare the daylights outa the competition with that machine :orange
Sounds like you're from the UK ?
Intimidation is part of the game!

Yes, I'm originally from the UK, been in the states for a while. anim-cheers1

When I was a lad living just outside Manchester, I was passenger on a Grasstrack Sidecar... Check this link out for an awesome race http://youtu.be/lQKGI7TnWnc

Brings back memories.... Although we weren't anyway as good as these guys
Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
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stuka151
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#34

Post by stuka151 »

Cool project. Electric heated grips are so simple and cheap. Running coolant through the bars seems like a point of potential failure. Although I've seen some crazier ideas. There is a vintage snowmobile (Scorpion if I remember correctly) that I see on occasion that has the exhaust routed through the handlebars.
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#35

Post by HOTT »

CR500 front end. Nice! :orange
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#36

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Red2trike wrote:Why not pie-cut the upper frame tubes (back of neck) and add more trail for the steering you need? Add about 4-5 degree's.
Um... Not sure why you think he needs more trail. Generally you want less trail on a sidecar outfit. Most of my outfits have had about 100mm of trail and that is manageable. The GL1100's stock trail is 135mm and mine required a lot more force to steer than anything before it.

Bob:
I see you changed to leading axle forks. That's pretty much what I did too http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49627 It made a whole world of difference and it was a lot cheaper & easier than any of the other ways of reducing trail.

It also looks like your front end is much narrower than original. Is that the whole CR500 front end?

And I have to ask what your tires are? I like a K270 on the rear and HF307 on the front for snow but we aren't allowed to have studs, let alone spikes, so I have no clue how that would translate to your application or how your tire choice would translate to mine.

Having run sidecar outfits in the winter (although not racing on ice) for some years, lots of people have tried to convince me that heating the bars with engine coolant would be a good idea but when you start thinking about how to get it to & from the bars it gets pretty complicated & impractical real fast. I have to agree with Stuka about electric handlebar heaters. You are likely to be running it with no lights so unless you are going to pull the stator and go to a constant loss electric system you will have plenty of "spare" charging system capacity that you can use for handlebar heaters &c. A set of Polly Heaters made for snowmobiles would be a lot less complex.

I had a GL1000 outfit for several winters. I can't say for 100% sure if the 1100 will be the same but the 1000 absolutely required a block heater if it was going to start at much below -10c. This shouldn't prevent you from using it on the ice but you may need to find a way of pre-warming it. I hung an external block heater diagonally below the sump but you might need the ground clearance. I don't know if you would have power at the track anyway, though.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#37

Post by duke182 »

Very interesting build.
I would suggest using round tubing for your rear struts.
It is usually stronger than square
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#38

Post by BobManifold »

After a short break for vacations, we stocked the fridg anim-cheers1 e and mounted the sidecar (at last!). I
Came out well, now need to build platform on chair and running board on the left side of the bike.
Steering changes are just around the corner.
Attachments
Used Steering track rods for the triangulation points
Used Steering track rods for the triangulation points
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Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
BobManifold
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#39

Post by BobManifold »

Pics of WIP front end mods to reduce trail without reducing my bank balance.

Loops around front and rear yet to be completed before final welding of seams & joints

I still need one set of Axle Clamps to get the mounting finalized - 20mm axle dia with 10MM holes, if anyone has a set lying round

anim-cheers1

BobM.
Attachments
You can see I painted the sidecar<br /><br />Not obvious is the running board around the rear wheel and along the left side of the bike
You can see I painted the sidecar

Not obvious is the running board around the rear wheel and along the left side of the bike
2014-09-22 18.43.31.jpg (75.68 KiB) Viewed 129 times
3/16 plate and 1 1/4 Square Tube<br /><br />Loops on end will be 1&quot; square tube slid in and pinned/bolted
3/16 plate and 1 1/4 Square Tube

Loops on end will be 1" square tube slid in and pinned/bolted
2014-09-22 18.39.07.jpg (81.28 KiB) Viewed 129 times
Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#40

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Yow! It looks like your trail will be pretty close to zero!
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#41

Post by BobManifold »

Very observant Bob!
These photos were with the wheel & axle in place, but not bolted up, so I could determine zero trail at full compression.
Following that, I actually drilled the boltholes to provide about 1.5 inches trail as a starting point.
Its bound to be better to steer than with the 5+ inches stock trail..
Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
BobManifold
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#42

Post by BobManifold »

Sidecar Bob wrote:Yow! It looks like your trail will be pretty close to zero!
Sidecar Bob
Looking at your signature made me think..... I have three sidecars now... Should I get counselling?
anim-cheers1
Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#43

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Nah. The more sidecars you have the better balanced you are. Psychologically, that is :roll:
ImageImageImageImage
sidecar.GIF
sidecar.GIF (16 KiB) Viewed 121 times
My requirements for on road are not so extreme as yours are so I am happy with the difference that changing from inline axle forks to leading axle ones made. It certainly handles much better and it feels like it could be a bit easier to steer than the 650 so I figure that the trail is about 4" or maybe a little less now.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#44

Post by fish »

httpjalopnik.com5437106finally-a-sidecar-based-on-an-f4-f-wildcat
httpjalopnik.com5437106finally-a-sidecar-based-on-an-f4-f-wildcat.jpg
httpjalopnik.com5437106finally-a-sidecar-based-on-an-f4-f-wildcat.jpg (63.35 KiB) Viewed 111 times
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Re: My 81 1100 based Ice-Racing Sidecar

#45

Post by BobManifold »

As you can see the project is progressing.
The chair bed is now complete and the platform is in place along the left side. We will be covering these with expanded metal mesh
The front forks are coming on well, ready for final welding now I have all the pieces in place and mocked up using self tapping screws.
I still need a pair of axle clamps to finish the wheel mounting - Does anyone have a pair lying around? Honda part number 51634463003, 20mm axle dia with holes for 10mm studs. I dont know if they were common across all GL1100's
First frost this morning... I need to get all the mechanicals and construction finished ASAP so I can start on the rear tire. BTW, I found a 510x17 Enduro tire at a local swap meet, still in its wrapper, $15... I skipped all the way home
Then had a beer or two anim-cheers1
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Bob Manifold

Older, fuller-figured, bike nut living in rural Connecticut

94 GL1500A Really Naked, Tangerine Dream
81 GL1100 Naked, Carbon Fibre Black Beauty
81 GL1100 based Ice Racing Sidecar
78 BMW R100/7 (Original Owner) My regular ride nowadays
86 CR500 Ice Racer
77 Ex-Works FANTIC 200 Trials Sidecar (Will Hawkes bike)
99 Montessa 305 Trials Sidecar
99 Ex-Works Bultaco Sherpa (Andreu Codina's bike)
79 Bultaco 199A Sherpa
65 Honda CA77 305 Dream
73 Yamaha DT250
81 XR500 (600cc) StarRacer Dirttrack
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