1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

for those of you that have M.B.S. (multiple bike syndrome) and have the "silver wing" models.
as our sponsors also have supplies for those bikes and they are popular with the "wing" crowd.

Moderators: CYBORG, Oldewing, robin1731, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
MontanaGL650
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Billings, MT

1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#1

Post by MontanaGL650 »

Greetings Gentlemen! My name is Jeff B. and I am having some starter problems with my 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing. I have read similar threads about the same issue but would appreciate clarification. It is behaving just like the starter in this You-tube video /watch?v=Y3oKj-7MgUM as discussed in topic "1983 GL650 Silverwing with broken starter clutch!" on a previous forum.

Is my issue indeed the Starter Clutch?

So here's the deal:
A buddy and I have the engine pulled and the case open with the starter clutch exposed..... My questions are:
1. Do we need the special Honda Clutch Lock 20mm 24mm Nut Combo Spanner Socket Tool CX 650 GL 650 1983 to get the starter clutch off?
2. After removing the starter clutch, we just have to put in a Honda GL 650 D Silverwing D (RC10) (1983) : Starter Clutch Repair Kit

This is my first post and appreciate any guidance I can get on this - Thanks!
JeffB
Montana 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing
User avatar
CYBORG
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 24537
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
Location: Muskegon mich

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#2

Post by CYBORG »

Welcome from Mich. Spent a little time in Shelby MT. many years ago.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
User avatar
Rat
Photo Gallery Admin
Photo Gallery Admin
Posts: 15457
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:59 pm
My Album: https://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rat/
RIP: cookie
Location: Toronto .... Canada

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#3

Post by Rat »

Welcome to the 'Wingdom.

You're a little over my head, but someone wiser will be along shortly.

Gord
"I'd rather Ride than Shine"
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#4

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If your starter motor spins without turning the engine over and catches once in a while, like that the starter motor is definitely the cause.

Jeff: The first thing you need to do is put your bike's year and model in your signature so you don't need to mention it each time. The next thing is to go to http://cx500forum.com/ and sign up there too. (BTW: rebuilding the starter clutch has been covered there many times)

Do you have a Factory Shop Manual? If not go to http://cxgl.wikispaces.com/ and download the one for your model.

The special tool you mention is used to remove the nut that holds the clutch in. That is, the drive train clutch that disengages the transmission from the engine, not the starter clutch.

AFAIK, the kit you mentioned should have what you need. I ordered the individual parts (3 each caps, springs, rollers) from my local Honda dealer for about the same cost as the kit + shipping and had it in a couple of days.

When I did mine I was advised by MurrayF not to undo the 3 special Torx head screws. You can remove & replace all of the starter clutch parts without removing the plate that they hold in place and if you remove them you are supposed to replace them. Also, if the old rollers have gouged the surface of the flywheel it is best to find a good used flywheel to replace it.

The FSM shows how to remove the flywheel with a Honda flywheel puller. If you don't have the puller you can use an M20-1.5 bolt. I bought an automotive oil pan drain plug with the correct thread. If it isn't long enough put a washer in the hole first for it to bear against. if you have an impact wrench (air or electric) you won't even need to keep the flywheel from turning but if you have to hammer on a regular wrench you will want to use a gear holder as shown in the FSM. They aren't hard to make from a piece of steel.

The camchains in these bikes stretch over time and can eventually break. To replace the camchain you have to remove the flywheel. Can you see where I am going with this? I know this would make the job a lot bigger but it could save you a lot of work later on. You can sometimes tell how much life is left in the camchain by measuring how far the adjuster's shaft protrudes (search at CX500forum for that) but if it has gone too far you will see this:
camchain.JPG
camchain.JPG (68.25 KiB) Viewed 403 times
Also, unless you know that the water pump mechanical seal has been replaced recently order a new one. Yamaha 11H-12438-10 is the exact same part but costs a lot less than Honda charges.

You will need a rear cover gasket, a timing cover gasket, a water pump seal and a new copper crush washer for the nut that fastens the impeller onto the camshaft. And don't forget the O-rings that go between the cover and the engine block near the top. If they leak coolant will get into the oil so it isn't worth cheaping out on them.

You can buy the gaskets or make your own from 0.8mm gasket sheet that is available at most auto parts stores. Make sure you get a roll that is wide enough for the rear cover gasket. A 12"x18" wide roll won't make the 12.25" wide gasket you need so find a 18"x36" roll and it will last you for years if you keep the cutouts from larger gaskets to make smaller ones from.

If you do not already have a suitable torque wrench get one before you start on this. If the impeller nut is not tight enough it can come loose, the impeller will rattle around inside the pump and the coolant will all pour past the seal and out the weep hole (don't ask me how I know this :oops:). If you tighten it too much you can easily strip the threads on the camshaft or even break the threaded end off. Not to mention that incorrectly torqued bolts can break or warp the cover.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
User avatar
Rat
Photo Gallery Admin
Photo Gallery Admin
Posts: 15457
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:59 pm
My Album: https://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rat/
RIP: cookie
Location: Toronto .... Canada

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#5

Post by Rat »

You see ....... ?

Gord anim-cheers1
"I'd rather Ride than Shine"
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#6

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Yeah. You knew I was still off work and would be along soon, but I don't know if I would fall into the category of "wiser" or just "experienced".

My 650's starter clutch was OK the winter before last winter but it started acting up as soon as the weather cooled down last fall. If I had been wise I would have found a way to do the starter clutch over a weekend instead of adding heaters to the engine to try to get it to last until spring. In the end I was sure the SC & the transmission I had been wrestling with for a couple of years weren't the only problems so when someone offered me a GL650 engine for a very reasonable price I grabbed it and, with my son's help, swapped it in over the Family Day long weekend http://cx500forum.com/forum/general-dis ... lives.html

The old engine's SC got progressively worse until it wouldn't catch reliably The last time I started that engine it had been inside where it was well above freezing all day with the (U1 lawn tractor) battery charging and the block heater on. After 15 minutes of tapping the button and hearing it whirr without grabbing I had just about decided I would have to call for a tow before the battery died when it caught. After what I went through with that I didn't want to take a chance so I rebuilt the "new" engine's starter clutch before I put it in (I had to have it that far apart to compare the camchains and I wanted to keep my original rear cover with the stick on heaters anyway).

BTW: The old engine's cooling system was nearly empty and the engine was full of foam so I'm pretty sure the other problem is a blown head gasket.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
MontanaGL650
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Billings, MT

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#7

Post by MontanaGL650 »

Thanks for all of the info .... Let me digest and get back to you with more questions.

BTW - thanks for time and making me feel welcome - Jeff


:-D UPDATE: We have sucessfully removed the starter clutch assembly (with the 20mm 1.5 thread bolt) !! We noticed immediatly that one of the 3 TORX bolts was sheared, and the starter clutch was missing some springs ???? - Where the heck did they go ??? IDK - the point is that I need a starter clutch rebuild kit...

I will let you know how it goes ...

Thanks - You guys rock!!
Montana 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#8

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If one of the torx bolts is sheared you need more than the kit. At very least you will need 3 torx bolts but have a look at the surface of the flywheel and the inside of the part the torx bolts hold on. Some marking from the ends of the rollers is OK but if you can feel the marks by running a fingernail across them you will need to polish them out with fine sandpaper and it they are too deep for that you will need to find replacement parts. I have read that the GL500 parts will fit and are less likely to have been damaged like this.

Also check the boss on the starter clutch gear (the part that the starter clutch grabs onto) for damage. Again, if you can feel lumps & bumps you should probably look for replacements and again one from a GL500 will work.

The 650's engine timing is advanced a bit more than the 500, which can cause some kickback when starting. Some people think that this might be the cause of a higher rate of starter motor and starter clutch failures in 650 engines.

As for the missing bits, if you are lucky they are in the oil pan :roll:
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
MontanaGL650
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Billings, MT

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#9

Post by MontanaGL650 »

Ordered all springs, pistons, rollers, gaskets, and TORX bolts from my local Honda dealership ... Cali warehouse had everything in stock !

I will inspect the other recommended areas for scoring/wear......

Thanks for all your help Sidecar Bob - I will post later for an update - J
Montana 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing
MontanaGL650
Lead Member
Lead Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Billings, MT

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#10

Post by MontanaGL650 »

UPDATE ****

Replaced the TORX screws, pistons, springs, and rollers - along with gaskets .... sanded scored areas ....
(Found missing springs ... they were very distressed/impacted/smashed on the inner piston shaft)

Starts now with one quick push of the starter button !!!! I rode all day yesterday crossy.gif I don't think I am going to be able to wipe this grin off of my face for months!!! I look like the Cheshire Cat - I cant believe how much I missed riding.

Thanks for all your help gents - May the road forever be in your favor.
One happy MO FO in Billings MT.
Jeff
Montana 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing
User avatar
Rat
Photo Gallery Admin
Photo Gallery Admin
Posts: 15457
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:59 pm
My Album: https://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rat/
RIP: cookie
Location: Toronto .... Canada

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#11

Post by Rat »

Glad you fixed it ...... thanks for helping out Bob.

Gord action1
"I'd rather Ride than Shine"
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
User avatar
TNTbefree
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:49 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#12

Post by TNTbefree »

I was having an issue with the starter motor on my 1981 gl1100 spinning but not engaging or turning over the motor. (Will Not Start) I had read that others had pulled the engine to fix inner gears when come to find out it was just the starter that was bad. I took the starter off to test it and it seemed to work fine. But then I put the armature under a load and it did not spin. Something inside was slipping.

I took it apart and found that the pin in the outer gear had worn smooth. Allowing the outer gear to spin around in the case instead of forcing the two inner gears to spin the armature.

I spun the outer gear back to its original position, pulled out the old retaining pin, put in a new homemade pin, slapped it back together and when I got it back on, she fired right up.
Attachments
gl1100 starter spins will not engage engine.jpg
gl1100 starter spins will not engage engine.jpg (77.22 KiB) Viewed 362 times
Last edited by TNTbefree on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CYBORG
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 24537
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
Location: Muskegon mich

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#13

Post by CYBORG »

Good find. I don't think I have seen that before. But it something to be looked at when a starter is apart
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#14

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Yeah, but it doesn't really fit in this thread because the GL650 starter motor does not have those gears and Jeff's problem was definitely the starter clutch (which is similar to the SC in GoldWings BTW).

It might be a good idea to copy the info about the pin into the GoldWing Tech section where people who don't read the CX part of the forum would have a better chance of seeing it.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
User avatar
TNTbefree
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:49 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: 1983 Honda GL650 Silverwing starter issues

#15

Post by TNTbefree »

Sidecar Bob wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't really fit in this thread because the GL650 starter motor does not have those gears and Jeff's problem was definitely the starter clutch (which is similar to the SC in GoldWings BTW).

It might be a good idea to copy the info about the pin into the GoldWing Tech section where people who don't read the CX part of the forum would have a better chance of seeing it.
I placed this info here because when I searched my issue (gl1100 starter spins will not engage or turn over engine) this is the post that came up first. If a person searches that issue and finds this page they may think that they too will have to pull out the engine to fix the issue. I just wanted to let them know to check everything, ie. starter motor, before doing so.

At first I thought I had the same issue as the above bike. I am more than thrilled that I didn't.
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GL 500,GL650, CX500, CX650 forum”