I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. Sorry

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CYBORG
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#91

Post by CYBORG »

I agree with Robin. Cooler air, or intakes, result in denser fuel charge to the engine. Again it is a mater of temp difference between the fuel charge, and the engine/coolant temp. The original air intake takes warm air off of the coils for faster warm up. But once engine is at temp., cooler air intake will lead to better running.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#92

Post by Captain Midnight »

robin1731 wrote:Technically the intakes are not "heated" from the factory. They will get residual heat from the heads.
Technically then, they are heated, are they not?
robin1731 wrote:Heated, to me, means something that is attached to the intakes to bring them up in temp even more. Such as wrapping them with a coil of copper tubing fed from the cooling system. Just the same way you would heat a carburetor.
Thankfully, Honda didn't do that to us. My coolant crossover tube O-rings don't like sub-freezing temperatures and tend to leak fluid when temps get into the teens.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#93

Post by CYBORG »

Ya, I tend to think of "heated" as being from a special device, designed to just heat the manifolds. Honda may. or may not have taken the heating into the design. I think we all know what we are talking about. I use Ram air from outside of the fairing, capturing both the pressure and the temp of the air from outside of the fairing. Pressurized air box. This has worked well for me for years.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#94

Post by Captain Midnight »

robin1731 wrote:
Captain Midnight wrote:snip..................
Hotter fuel allows a faster, more efficient burn.

If this were the case race cars would heat the fuel before it enters the carb instead of cooling it. The cooler you can make the fuel and air the more dense the mix becomes. Which in turn makes more power.

Heating the fuel can cause the mix to become too lean. Creating other issues.
You are partially correct.
Liquid fuel is not compressible. Attempting to do so creates enormous amounts of unwanted heat.
Air, on the other hand is highly compressible. Doing so creates heat, but only at a fraction of the costs compared to that of a liquid.
Denser air simply allows for more fuel.
Cooling the liquid fuel is about latent heat transfer to the air surrounding it. The benefits of cooling the fuel before introduction to the required air are so negligible that no manufacturer pursue's it viability.

With liquid fuel, "volatility", if fully understood, reaffirm's my statement.
Achieving a happy medium in practice is difficult. If given a choice between concentrating on the two (fuel or air), air will always win because of its compressibility.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#95

Post by CYBORG »

Achieving a happy medium in practice is difficult. If given a choice between concentrating on the two (fuel or air), air will always win because of its compressibility.

I agree
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#96

Post by Captain Midnight »

CYBORG wrote:Ya, I tend to think of "heated" as being from a special device, designed to just heat the manifolds. Honda may. or may not have taken the heating into the design. I think we all know what we are talking about. I use Ram air from outside of the fairing, capturing both the pressure and the temp of the air from outside of the fairing. Pressurized air box. This has worked well for me for years.
I do the same. I catch air ahead of my fairing and duct it to my carburetor.

If Honda did not want the elbows heated, they would've isolated them from the heat of the cylinder heads.
With a understanding of the thermal efficiency's involved in their use, one would understand why the factory rack works so well. Applying the same efficiency's to a single carburetor conversion is something that is easily evident between a CC Products conversion and a Cycle Innovations conversion. One is clearly better than the other. Although both utilize the factory heated elbows, the CC Products conversion chose to fully heat the balance of the induction with engine coolant for good reason.

I think it is a clear given that the factory elbows are heated for a reason. Interpreting that reason is an unnecessary cause for needless debate. Continuing the principle of its application should be a fundamental step in the design and construction of a single carburetor conversion should the builder be able to do it within his means of finances.
The benefits and advantages far outweigh the costs, but one has to understand and believe it first.

**I fully agree with your earlier view of people believing what they want to believe. This is why I suggest all just rebuild their factory rack. A top performing conversion is simply not a "inexpensive" alternative. That is my experience.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#97

Post by CYBORG »

a person in my circumstances must always weight cost against benefit....and against true need
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
Captain Midnight

Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#98

Post by Captain Midnight »

The OP, in post #14, should seriously reconsider his viewpoint.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#99

Post by HOTT »

Cancelled Reply. Sorry.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#100

Post by Captain Midnight »

Here is a perfect example.

For what the seller is asking in cost, the additional costs required to make it work correctly, a professional rebuild of the factory rack is sage advice.
They are becoming somewhat rare though.
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