Gl1000 / Gl1100 hybrid clutch problem

[wittmann]

Hello,
I have a GL1000 KZ
I rebuilt the motor about 4 years ago but due to illness I am only getting it ready for the road now. Following the advice on the forum about removing the 'Shock Absorbing' friction plate, I have just removed my clutch assembly to replace this part with 2 steel discs.
When I removed the clutch I found a splined washer located on the clutch shaft at its bottom where it joins with the clutch basket.
The splined washer goes all the way along the splined shaft and then 'Falls-Off' at the end of the splined shaft to just hang loose until the clutch assembly is refitted and the washer is then clamped off centre and off the splines by the clutch centre plate ! I have seen a 40mm circlip in some workshop drawings but I think that the circlip has more to do with the clutch outer drum and NOT with this splined washer.
SO I cannot see why Honda went to all the trouble to make a perfect fitting splined washer that then just falls off and then hangs in the forged part of the shaft.....Surely There should be a spacer to fit against the splined washer to keep it in place on the splines, and mine is just missing and it is not mentioned in the parts fiche ?
Please can anyone help ? (I have used Octanes photo and modified it in paint to show the part, I hope that he does not mind )

Regards,
Alb.

[taunusrainer]

Wow. will have a look at my spare engine on weekend. Doesn't sound good imo.

[rcmatt007]

I looked at the bikebandit parts fisch.... and while I am not sure exactly what washer you are mentioning... they have a part #16 which is a circlip which appears to hold a washer in place

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... #sch402148

[78AZWing]

Either Honda doesn't have the parts fische on their site anymore, or I am not asking the right questions to get to it.

Makes running down to the Stealership with the part numbers in hand not a viable option, doesn't it.

[Track T 2411]

I looked at my 1100 service manual, and it shows a similar blow-up as Rodger's post. The clutch outer drum and scavenge pump drivechain are placed on the shaft first, and are held in place by the circlip, then the splined washer, followed by the clutch plates, discs, etc. Hope this helps! I've not been there yet on mine.

Good wrenchin'
Todd

[wittmann]

Hi Guys and thanks for the replies.
I managed to track the missing part down after I downloaded the 'Haynes Manual' for the GL1100. It described the part as a 'Washer' not as a circlip ! This makes far more sence as it is simply a spacer to 'move' the splined washer away from the clutch basket and back onto the actual splines, where it is clamped in place when the clutch centre is bolted in. The Honda OEM part number is 90602371000 and I can get it in England for £4.50 plus postage.
It is the same part as is shown in the BikeBandit fiche as part number 16 , so thank you rcmatt007 for confirming it. (The Bike Bandit part numbers have no relation to the OEM Honda parts)
I think that this missing part will explain the problems that I had shifting gears,particularly into neutral when the bike was stationary, so the addition of this part and removing the vulnerable 'sprung centre clutch friction plate' to replace it with 2 x metal plates should make my return to riding the Hybrid easy and fun.
Just in case anyone is interested I bought the bike and was told nothing about the 'Modifications' which I only found out about when I stripped it down for a complete rebuild.
It is a 1979 GL1000 KZ frame, forks, brakes and Comstar wheels, but with a GL1100 Block, clutch, rear swing arm and final drive. However the KZ heads have been retained so it has simple points ignition. The actual gears in the transmission are also GL1000 KZ as they had to be replaced due to deep 'pitting' in the gear teeth. I have no idea what could have caused it.....poor oil.....not changed often enough ?? Your guess is as good as mine.
Many Thanks again,
Alb

[rcmatt007]

great to see it worked out!

[wittmann]

Hi again Guys,
I wonder if anyone can help me with the actual dimensions of this part. Its number 16 on the Bike Bandit fiche as 'rcmatt007' kindly pointed out. I got a price in England and including postage it is suddenly $18... which I think is a bit much for a washer / spacer !!! and.....of course it is on back order because the last time they were asked for this part was over 5 years ago !!! .......which will mean a large delay....and I am keen to get 'back in the saddle' !!!
I have sent a PM to 'taunusrainer' who mentioned about checking his spare engine but just in case he misses it , does anyone else have a spare GL1100 Engine or Clutch assembly that they can check and measure this part for me ???
Thank you in advance,
Alb.
P.S. If possible, a photo of 'IT' would be even more helpful

[Track T 2411]

My '80 to '82 parts manual lists PN 90602-371-000 as "circlip - 40MM" if that is any help.

Todd

[rcmatt007]

unfortunately it is not available from honda.... you mgiht try cyclepsycho even sent in one of those prepaid envelopes through the USPS ought to be cheaper than that

[wittmann]

Hi Todd, and thanks for the reply ...but the 40mm has to be the diameter and it is the -Thickness -of the part that I need. I will look at 'cyclepsycho' and see what they can offer......
I have run into problems with parts from the USA before though, I now live in France but when I lived in England these were some of the answers that I received when I asked them to ship......
1. We do not ship outside of USA....
2. Minimum order of $ ooo....
3. Or even once, I wanted about 4 items that cost between $5 and $30 each.The company wanted $350 PER ITEM in shipping charges.. ..SO ..total cost in shipping $1300....A good way to lose custom.
Regards,
Alb.

[wittmann]

Hi rcmatt007,
I contacted cyclepsycho and a man called Dave Morgan answered my email. He actually offered me the part for FREE and all I had to pay was the postage which was great.......BUT.....the part IS a circlip as you can see from the photo that Dave kindly took for me. It is the part that holds the clutch basket onto the shaft......SO.....I am still stuck with the problem of the splined washer sliding along the shaft splines until it 'falls off' the splines at the end just before the clutch basket, where it is clamped, off centre, when the clutch basket is bolted in
Does anyone have any other suggestions ???? I am certain that there is a spacer missing and that would also explain my poor clutch, as a spacer would increase the length of the clutch assembly and allow the plates to move futher and so disengage properly, OR am I missing something ??
Regards,
Alb.

[Whiskerfish]

I think Old Fogey knows the inside of the Clutches by heart. I will send him a PM and have him pop in here for a look.

[rcmatt007]

got me there, I haven't had one apart in quite a while

Dave is a great guy

[Old Fogey]

OK, here we go!

First off, the splined washer IS supposed to slide off the main shaft splines, as you will see! It doesn't really 'slop' about on the shaft; there is only about 0.1mm of a difference in diameter so the max it could sit off-centre would be 0.05mm.

First pic. Shows the input splined shaft and the main shaft


This one the clutch basket sitting on the input shaft


Next we have the clutch centre and the washer. Note the relative sizes of the two mating portions


This shows the correct position of the washer


You can see from the next two how the washer provides a wide surface for the centre to bolt down to.