Solenoid issues

[77Gowing]

White smoke ain't good. Sorry for your troubles, but keep at it and you will sort it out. Good luck.

[gdonlo04]

Thanks for the details. it is a big help. I bypassed the solenoid and the bike started right up. to my surprise no white smoke from either pipe. bike ran good. I ordered a new one and will install when it arrives. I will change the oil and move on to the overheating issues.

[gdonlo04]

I bypassed the solenoid and the bike started right up. sounded good. no white smoke at all . weird! I ordered a new solenoid. I will pull the plugs and check for water or gas. also will pull front cover and mess with water pump for free play. Q. mine has Phillips head screws. once removed is it better to replace with bolts or use Phillips head again?

[Sidecar Bob]

1) In some cases attempting to start a hydrolocked engine can bend a connecting rod so trying to start an engine that you suspect may have fluid in one or more cylinders is not recommended. If it was hydrolocked the starter motor would not have been able to turn the engine and if you have already started the engine it probably wasn't hydrolocked.

But it won't hurt to check. I had a problem with the carb to plenum seals on the fuel rails a few years ago that was letting just enough fuel into the cylinders to keep it from turning over easily while the engine was just shut off but after it sat for 4 or 5 minutes enough had evaporated that it would start normally. If I had known to check for hydrolock I wouldn't have wasted a lot of time & money trying to figure out why 3 different starter motors wouldn't work right when hot.

2) If you had a big cloud of white "smoke" (actually steam) from the exhaust your problem isn't the water pump and it is more than just the solenoid (although that may need to be replaced too). As several have already told you a head gasket has blown. When the gasket blew the engine sucked in coolant, superheated it and blew the steam out through the exhaust. If you check now you will find that your cooling system is empty, which is why there are no more clouds. If you continue to run the engine without coolant you will overheat it and cause damage. Heck' even if you drove it home while it was "burning coolant" like that you may have done damage - I have an engine that I did that to and there is a channel eroded between the cooling jacket and one cylinder; Repairing it would involve stripping the block and having both halves milled so now it is spare parts.

3) No Honda motorcycle has ever come from the factory with Phillips screws. What you think are Phillips are actually Japan Industrial Standard. Phillips screws & drivers are designed so that the driver cams out of the head when overdriven - they are designed for mass production and the idea is that it is better to wear out the driver and/or mess up the head than it is to break the screw off in the hole by over-torquing it. Japan Industrial Standard screws & drivers are not designed to cam out because the Japanese were smart enough to figure out that they could put clutches in the drivers. JIS screws will last much better than Phillips and are much easier to remove after many years if you use a proper JIS driver but if you use a Phillips driver you will only strip the head.
BTW: You can usually tell a JIS screw by a dimple or bump between 2 of the arms of the cross.

The biggest problem with JIS screws in engines is torquing them evenly on re-assembly. Some replace them with allen screws but I don't like them because dirt collects in the sockets. If you can get them the M6 with 8mm head screws that the GL1100 has are the best.

4) You shouldn't have to remove any JIS screws to check the water pump. The first thing to do is look at the weep hole and see if any oil or coolant has been coming out of it. The water pump has bearings with oil seals that should normally keep engine oil from leaking out and a sliding mechanical seal to keep the coolant in. There is a space between the frontmost oil seal and the mechanical seal that connects to a small hole in the bottom of the engine right below the pump and if either seal fails the hole will "weep".
Next remove the lower rad hose fitting from the front of the water pump housing (two M6 screws with 10mm hex heads)(I would normally recommend draining the cooling system first but I'm pretty sure there isn't a lot in yours right now). With that out of the way you should see the water pump's impeller; reach a finger in and try to move it from side to side or up & down. If it has any movement the pump's bearings have failed.

BTW: Do you know the difference between a screw and a bolt? I thought I did and like you I thought it had to do with the type of head but I looked it up a few years ago and found out that there is no physical difference between screws & bolts. The difference is entirely in how the item is used. A bolt is something that is screwed into a nut and a screw is something that is screwed into any other part that isn't a nut. In other words, you can take out two identical parts from the same bin and the one you screw into a hole in the engine becomes a screw while the one you put a nut on becomes a bolt.
Ain't the English language logical?

[gdonlo04]

Well the Solenoid install was a success. I gained a lot of experience with this install. I experienced Hydro lock as described above. After all parts ( new starter and Solenoid)were installed, I tried to crank the bike to check my work. It did crank but then stopped. I remembered the hydro lock comments, so I pulled the plug and stood next to the bike on the right side like I always to start the bike and hit the start button. The engine spit out 8 ounces of gas out cylinder 3 right into the crotch of my shorts. Holy COW that burns. Sent me running for the shower to get the gas off my burning skin. Note to self.... do not stand next to the bike when you pull the plugs and hit the start button. 1 issue down and on to the next issue. what new knowledge can I gain.....

[desertrefugee]

You need to fix that right away. Couple of things are causing that - common issue, but deadly for your motor.

1) You have a carburetor (or carbs) that is leaking fuel through the inlet needle valve.

2) You either haven't been shutting off your petcock or it is leaking allowing an already leaking carb to overfill - which ends up in a cylinder.

If you don''t correct this condition, I fear that it will not end well for your motor or your riding season. In fact, is it quite possible that damage has already been done...

[gdonlo04]

thanks, I dropped off the bike today at the shop that rebuilt my carbs 300 miles ago. The petcock was not off, and I immediately turned it off. it is rare for me not to turn petcock off. I read that turning this off is a must, to stop excess fuel from getting into the carbs.
Gas had been leaking out both tail pipes on separate occasions. I figure that the right would fill up and then leak out the pipe. Left would fill and once at capacity it would drain our the pie. I didn't catch it until after my gas experience. now it all adds up.

[Sidecar Bob]

It is either a stuck or dirty float valve or one or more of the carb to plenum seals has failed. After leaving the petcock on for a while remove the air filter and look for fuel on the bottom of the plenum. If it is wet you need to replace all of the seals before you attempt to start the engine again.

A few years ago mine became hard to re-start when it was still warm after driving. After wasting time trying to fix, then replace the starter motor I noticed that there was fuel in the plenum. Thinking that was from a leaking float valve I watched and it appeared that the fuel was coming from the throats of all 4 carbs. One or even 2 leaking float valves was possible but all 4 was not very likely. It turned out to be the carb to plenum seals were leaking. I replaced them and the bottom of the plenum has been dry since.

[desertrefugee]

Also, if those guys rebuilt your carbs 300 miles ago, it sounds like they have some explaining to do - and some remedial work on their dime.

[robin1731]

Also, if those guys rebuilt your carbs 300 miles ago, it sounds like they have some explaining to do - and some remedial work on their dime.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Those would get redone at my place on my dime if I had done them. Unless it was shown you put newly rebuilt carbs on a bike without replacing the fuel filter or running without one.

.

[EdK]

It is either a stuck or dirty float valve or one or more of the carb to plenum seals has failed. After leaving the petcock on for a while remove the air filter and look for fuel on the bottom of the plenum. If it is wet you need to replace all of the seals before you attempt to start the engine again.

A few years ago mine became hard to re-start when it was still warm after driving. After wasting time trying to fix, then replace the starter motor I noticed that there was fuel in the plenum. Thinking that was from a leaking float valve I watched and it appeared that the fuel was coming from the throats of all 4 carbs. One or even 2 leaking float valves was possible but all 4 was not very likely. It turned out to be the carb to plenum seals were leaking. I replaced them and the bottom of the plenum has been dry since.

Not to mention this is a serious fire hazard. Same happened to me, and I decided to rebuild the carbs at that time. So far so good, but I've only had it idling.

[gltriker]

Extremely fortunate there wasn't an ignition event, too!!