Small, or big problem?

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robin1731
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#16

Post by robin1731 »

redglbx wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:30 amsnip..............
Paola, No a KZ differential cannot replace a goldwing differential ! Paola, you need one from a 75 to 79 goldwing,
In Europe a GL is called a KZ.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#17

Post by pidjones »

1) Metal is not getting into final drive oil from the universal joint.
2) The '79 final drive should work just fine although 100 Euro is too much for one.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#18

Post by gltriker »

pidjones wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 pm 1) Metal is not getting into final drive oil from the universal joint.
Of course not! tlbranth and I were attempting to convey proactive driveshaft failure inspection information applicable to very early production GL1000 units does have to be considered.
Whether the internal components of the final drive assembly have been damaged or not, considering the 1976 model year and mileage of this person's GL1000, its driveshaft assembly components need inspection on the rearmost end where it is coupled to the input end of the final drive with vulnerable splines, as well . Yes, there may be metal fines there but they won't migrate into the sealed final drive.

Owner. Please study this excellent technical reference material from Old Fogey's website.
http://wingovations.com/gl1000-k0-swing ... 4579471107
Last edited by gltriker on Wed May 05, 2021 10:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#19

Post by flyin900 »

Paola,

A final drive from the 79 if it does fit your 1976 bike is a good deal at 100 Euro's if the mileage is accurate and shipping can be done cheaply within Europe. A US based purchase of a drive would easily cost you that and more with shipping and no real recourse if there is an issue. Unless you wish to pay for a return shipment back to the seller in the US if the drive has issues.

See what your mechanic come back with as a cost for servicing it. Yet as Whisker already noted the lack of parts and special tools and skills would deter most people. I know for a fact that the very large seal that is just inside the main wheel drive area is NLA. I replaced the drive on one of my bikes that was leaking onto my rear tire, as that seal was leaking and NLA from any source I tried.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#20

Post by tlbranth »

flyin900 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:15 pm I know for a fact that the very large seal that is just inside the main wheel drive area is NLA. I replaced the drive on one of my bikes that was leaking onto my rear tire, as that seal was leaking and NLA from any source I tried.
I found one: https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advan ... eywords3=8&
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#21

Post by tlbranth »

flyin900 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:15 pm I know for a fact that the very large seal that is just inside the main wheel drive area is NLA. I replaced the drive on one of my bikes that was leaking onto my rear tire, as that seal was leaking and NLA from any source I tried.
I found one: https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advan ... eywords3=8&
Another: https://www.motionindustries.com/products/sku/00605197
Another: https://www.amazon.com/Final-Drive-Left ... B07KRMKWFG
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#22

Post by Paola Zago »

gltriker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:41 am
Paola Zago wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:09 am
gltriker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:22 am

Hmmmm?
When you drained the lubricant out of the " cardan box " final drive 7000 km ago, what was the oil type and weight that was used to refill the" cardan box
"?

A hypoid gear oil of API GL-5 80-90W, or SAE 10W-40 engine oil?

Note: I don't utilize the original GL1000 final drive on my GL1000 trike, so I may not be stating the exact GearLubrication class and weight of hypoid gear oil specification in the Honda factory technical literature.

the oil change, both engine and final transmission, is one of the few jobs I know how to do on motorcycles, and I always scrupulously follow the data in the workshop manual. for the final transmission I use API SAE 90 oil, as quantity the manual reports 210 cc, but I fill until the level comes out of the hole.
then not having found precise data on the replacement, I change the oil of the final transmission every 10,000 km or every two years. while that of the engine every 5000 km or every two years. I don't know if I'm doing well or if I'm wrong, you tell me.
Paola (Italy)
I meant no disrespect. None.
Regretably now I had simply attempted to answer your questions as I had interpreted them. My abject apologies to you.

Done.
GLtrike, I apologize immensely if my words, perhaps also because of the Google translator, have been misinterpreted, but I didn't want to offend or attack anyone, I'm an ignorant girl about mechanics, and I listen to your every word to learn.
a big hug
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#23

Post by Paola Zago »

robin1731 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:35 pm
redglbx wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:30 amsnip..............
Paola, No a KZ differential cannot replace a goldwing differential ! Paola, you need one from a 75 to 79 goldwing,
In Europe a GL is called a KZ.
In Europe, the GL of 1978 and 1979, those with Comstar wheels, are called KZ, also in the brochures. so this may have created a bit of confusion
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#24

Post by Paola Zago »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:58 am Some of the confusion in this thread is caused by imprecise use of words so maybe a few definitions might help

"Cardan" refers to a universal joint (named for inventor G. Cardano)

"transmission" refers to a set of gears that are arranged so that they can be moved in and out of mesh to provide different gear ratios between the engine and the driving wheel(s). The transmission of a GL1000 is built into the engine and lubricated by the same oil as the engine.

"final drive" is a housing at the end of a motorcycle's swingarm with gears that convert the rotation of the driveshaft (propeller shaft) to the direction of rotation needed to turn the wheel.

"gear oil" is special oil formulated to withstand the shearing action of the gears. Since the final drive contains only gears it needs to be lubricated with gear oil and Honda specified "hypoid" gear oil because of the shape of the teeth of the gears.

BTW: "differential" refers to a device that allows driven wheels at opposite ends of an axle to turn at different rates as required for turning corners. Since 2 wheeled motorcycles only have one driven wheel they do not have differentials.

Paola: I think what you meant is that after you heard the strange sounds you drained the gear oil from your final drive and found that the gear oil contained metal particles.
I believe gltriker asked what kind of oil you used in the final drive because SAE90 gear oil looks a lot like 10W40 engine oil and a few cases have been reported of people damaging final drives by using engine oil in them instead of gear oil.
He suggested passing a magnet through the gear oil to determine whether the particles in it are steel or aluminum.
Sidecar Bob, thanks for your help, sometimes the technical terms, my ignorance, and automatic translation, can cause problems, I apologize to everyone.
now I understand the speech of the magnet, to check if the parts found in the oil are made of steel or aluminum, fantastic! Thus it is then possible to make a more precise diagnosis to identify the damage. I held the basin with the oil, and the particles, metallic and I can't wait to run home and get the magnet !!!
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#25

Post by cfairweather »

Paola- If you cannot find a final drive near you, I am willing to give you one. You would have to pay the shipping, but that could be expensive from Wyoming to Italy. Cedric
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#26

Post by ob1quixote »

Learned a lot in this one, especially about vocabulary differences from each side of the Atlantic!

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Re: Small, or big problem?

#27

Post by Paola Zago »

cfairweather wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:59 am Paola- If you cannot find a final drive near you, I am willing to give you one. You would have to pay the shipping, but that could be expensive from Wyoming to Italy. Cedric
dear cfairweather, thank you very much for your generosity, but first we wait for my mechanic to disassemble my final transmission to understand what exactly happened! meanwhile, I can't wait to check the metal filings in the oil that I had removed with the magnet.
I keep you updated, you are wonderful
Paola
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#28

Post by sgwilly »

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Re: Small, or big problem?

#29

Post by redglbx »

Wow ! This has been a great learning thread. Robin, Paola, I had no idea that a Gl (here) was a KZ in Europe, I was thinking Kawasaki.

And the terminology differences are really magnified once you add different languages in, I think everyone would understand what a differential is until you add in non-US English into it, it’s good to have multiple know-it-all’s (not bad) on board, this is a perfect example since Paola is trying to understand all this.

Anyway, Paola, please let us know what your mechanic finds and I would suggest that while he has it apart to do a thorough inspection of the driveshaft and it’s splines, imho that is the weakest part of the early G-Wing. Good Luck !
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#30

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Actually it's "GL1000KZ" (the same way that early CB750s are CB750KO)

And as I said, 1 wheel drive motorcycles do NOT have differentials, no matter how much lazy people want to call final drives by the wrong name.
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