Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

Discuss everything about Honda GoldWing. Feel free to ask any question related to GoldWing.

Moderators: CYBORG, robin1731, Oldewing, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Dr. Frankenstein
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#1

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

I feel like I should know this now after performing timing adjustments, but it's been a while and this is my first attempt at electronic ignition.

I have a new electronic ignition installed, identical to the one cfairweather outlined in his recent posts, and tried to time it according to THIS post:
viewtopic.php?f=22&start=45&t=5720&sid= ... b7b604e49a

...but what does it mean when the test light stays on all the time? for example, to set the timing on the F2 mark, I put one test lead on the blue/white wire connector as outlined in the above post, ground out the other to the frame as seen in the post pics, and the light came on; I turned the crank to the F2 mark, and the light stayed on all the way around. Same thing for the F1 mark - -

Battery is fully charged...
Ignition switch is On...
Spark plugs are wired up to the coils...
...and the red lead from the E-I is attached to the right screw under the Accessory box, seen here but before I put the lead on...
ImageDSCN2293 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

I did run a jumper from the spaces for the two black-braided wires in the center of the connector that came off the original ballast resister, that cfairweather says to connect with a jumper - you can see the loop here - that I figured would do the same thing...everything else I matched up to where the original blue and yellow wires AND the other two black/white wire entered the connector so I could put it back into the connector...how does this look?
ImageDSCN2321 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

So why is my test light staying ON all the time?
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#2

Post by gltriker »

There's a couple of reasons. Is the red wire securely attached to an active switched positive terminal?
https://www.mpsracing.com/instructions/ ... /DS1-3.pdf


Another Dynatek document for your files. See the last sentence under the VOLTGE TEST section.
https://www.mpsracing.com/instructions/ ... esting.pdf

Easily overlooked-
make sure you have an uninterrupted path to ground where the DynaS baseplate mounts in the formerly occupied by breaker points' cavity.
Corrosion can hide under adjacent surfaces on the ground path from the cylinder head, itself, past a hidden gasket or 2.
Screw threads are not reliable to assure a low resistance ground path. Corrosion will accumulate in their hidden threads. :(
Newly painted surfaces are very efficiently insulated where it shouldn't have been applied.

A quick way to test for a ground path issue is to run a temporary jumper wire from the negative battery post to directly touch the Dyna S baseplate. tumb2
Too loose Dyna S baseplate clamping screws will cause a similar issue with the test light .
A breaker points' baseplate and their primary ignition circuit may be more tolerant of a less than perfect ground connection in comparison to the Dyna S modules' demands.
The positive current path coursing through the red wire, independently, operates the ground switching circuitry in both Dyna S modules.
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
User avatar
Dr. Frankenstein
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#3

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

Well, here's what I have:
Plugs are connected, the switch is On.

Here is the connector the original wires from the coils were plugged in to; note that since I am using the upgraded coils, I have removed the ballast resistor entirely and have run a jumper (that black-wire loop) into those original spaces in the connector, because I read that's what you're supposed to do when using the new Dyna coils. All the other wires (color-wise - the yellow, blue and black wires)) have been reinstalled in their original positions.
ImageDSCN2321 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

Notice the test light here is connected to where the white wire from the E-I connects to the Blue wire, and the light is On...this light stays on even as I rotate the engine
ImageDSCN2335 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

On the other one, the black wire from the E-I is connected to the Yellow/Green wire, and the light is Off; this light stays off even as I rotate the engine:
ImageDSCN2336 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

The red wire from the unit is plugged into the other red wire from the unit (seen here) and that wire is attached to the Accessory panel under the left shelter, which you Can do as an option outlined in the Dyna instruction sheet you listed. With a freshly-charged battery reading 12.52 volts I have 11.78 volts at that Accessory connection point

Also, taking your advice I ran a jumper from the Negative battery post to the Dyna baseplate, and got nothing: the light stays off. The screws on the baseplate are tight, and I have also sprayed down the connections with contact cleaner, but still have No Joy. All the wires coming from the coils - the yellow, blue and the two black ones that screw into the coils themselves and go into the black plastic connector - are tight;

What am I missing?
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#4

Post by gltriker »

Hey there John!
I just woke from a morning nap, am watching a mini-marathon of Roadkill and opened my laptop to read this.
My first groggy impression is that you have somehow combined both primary negative circuit wire connections, Together.

A couple of years ago a fellow had been struggling with a mangled wiring connection under the rubber boot. Seems he was dealing with a light continuously on. Still using points and condenser though. BUT, we know that now removed component and its two plug-in wires are not in the theater where you are working, anymore.

His photo of that area suggested he had plugged both primary leads from the points into the same double terminal connector. Both condenser leads were plugged into the other double terminal connector. Something like that. When he attempted to start the engine with both primary leads connected together, chaos ensued. Yes, our suspicions were fact.

So..... just for fun, put all 4 spark plugs into their wires, lay them on the engine, and just for fun, crank the engine over.

Be very mindful, FIRST, that if gasoline is expelled out of the spark plug holes while cranking the engine over with a nearby sparking spark plug ...... a Fire may happen there

Are all 4 spark plugs firing in concert with each other? Yes? How fun was that!!!

Not trying to have fun at your expense.
In the photos of my 1975 GL1000 primary wires' details with Dyna ignition coils installed that I had provided for your prospective DC1-1 ignition coils installation, on pre-1978 GL1000 bikes, you noted the visual simplicity of bullet connectors.

Your 1978 GL1000 black plastic multiple wires' terminals and the jumper is where my suspicions lead to.

Whoa! Just thought of something. Work with me now.

Unplug both Dyna S leads from their respective double socket terminal under the rubber boot.
Turn on the key switch and handlebar switch. Now, Test from a good ground connection for the presence of positive current at both double socket terminals. Positive current presence at both double socket terminal confirms both ignition coil has a connection to the positive terminal of the battery.
Call my cell phone. It is on, 24/7.
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
User avatar
Dr. Frankenstein
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#5

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

Hey Cliff! Are you kidding me?? I'll take any fun I can get these days, at my expense or not...remind me to tell you the story of the 'hungover-frozen-water-pitcher' sometime. And I'm a Monster Garage guy myself - but I'd still like to put together a motorcycle restoration show; it's all cars on TV these days... (any producers out there??)

Anyway, I'll try the spark-plug thing sometime today; with temps in the mid-90's here today, it's hotter than a redheaded debutante in the lab...the shop fan helps, but, yeah, it's steamy in there. Reminds me of working in my dad's machine shop when I was a kid. And there's not yet any gas in the tank, so no worries there. In twenty-something years of rebuilding bikes I've only had one "Holy ****!" :shock: :shock: :shock: moment with gasoline - but I still keep an extinguisher in the garage to this day. lolol

Re: the connector wiring, that does seem to be the weakest link in this electrical chain I have going here but I don't know why, all the wires are where they should be going - I feel like the answer is right in front of me. Oh, I'll get it, but if anybody has any information to hasten this "Eureka!" along I'd love to hear it!
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#6

Post by gltriker »

Yeah, I went back to the other topic where you displayed the 'new' DC1-1 ignition coils and the detail of the placements of the very long blue, yellow, and both black primary wire assemblies you had, Correctly, there, installed onto their respective screw terminals.
I get lost amongst the other photos and conversation.

Yes. Perform the dynamic engine cranking test experiment. Do all 4 spark plugs discharge, simultaneously?

Perhaps not even one spark plug will discharge. 🤔

Is the DYNA S rotor spinning while you are cranking the engine over with the electric starter? No?
The Advancer Driving Pin is missing?
Left side camshaft's, Timing Belt? Its Pulley been removed for any reason? Its Key missing?

Finally, I now have no more thoughts to offer , John.
Done
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#7

Post by gltriker »

Dr. Frankenstein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:04 pm Hey Cliff! Are you kidding me?? I'll take any fun I can get these days, at my expense or not...remind me to tell you the story of the 'hungover-frozen-water-pitcher' sometime. And I'm a Monster Garage guy myself - but I'd still like to put together a motorcycle restoration show; it's all cars on TV these days... (any producers out there??)

Anyway, I'll try the spark-plug thing sometime today; with temps in the mid-90's here today, it's hotter than a redheaded debutante in the lab...the shop fan helps, but, yeah, it's steamy in there. Reminds me of working in my dad's machine shop when I was a kid. And there's not yet any gas in the tank, so no worries there. In twenty-something years of rebuilding bikes I've only had one "Holy ****!" :shock: :shock: :shock: moment with gasoline - but I still keep an extinguisher in the garage to this day. lolol

Re: the connector wiring, that does seem to be the weakest link in this electrical chain I have going here but I don't know why, all the wires are where they should be going - I feel like the answer is right in front of me. Oh, I'll get it, but if anybody has any information to hasten this "Eureka!" along I'd love to hear it!
John, have you exclaimed,"Eureka!" :oldies , yet?
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
User avatar
Dr. Frankenstein
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#8

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

No, not yet - I even had an electrical engineer friend of mine take a look at it, he seems to feel it's something in the unit itself; a bad grounding, maybe...? I'm hoping I didn't get a defective one, but I'm also trying to chase down what it Could be.
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#9

Post by gltriker »

Dr. Frankenstein wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:57 pm No, not yet - I even had an electrical engineer friend of mine take a look at it, he seems to feel it's something in the unit itself; a bad grounding, maybe...? I'm hoping I didn't get a defective one, but I'm also trying to chase down what it Could be.
So, you did check my last 3 guesses then ?
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
User avatar
Dr. Frankenstein
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:22 am
Location: Charlottesville, VA

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#10

Post by Dr. Frankenstein »

No, not yet - As you know I've been a little busy here dealing with other stuff - however I can confirm the advance driving pin IS present.
"Left side camshaft's, Timing Belt? Its Pulley been removed for any reason? Its Key missing?"
- Not since I changed the belts when I first got it...and I made sure the timing marks matched up on the wheel...
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: Baldwinsville, NY (central NY)

Re: Electronic Ignition Test Light ON All the Time

#11

Post by gltriker »

Dr. Frankenstein wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:13 pm No, not yet - As you know I've been a little busy here dealing with other stuff - however I can confirm the advance driving pin IS present.
"Left side camshaft's, Timing Belt? Its Pulley been removed for any reason? Its Key missing?"
- Not since I changed the belts when I first got it...and I made sure the timing marks matched up on the wheel...
tumb2
Dr. Frankenstein wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:57 pm No, not yet - I even had an electrical engineer friend of mine take a look at it, he seems to feel it's something in the unit itself; a bad grounding, maybe...? I'm hoping I didn't get a defective one, but I'm also trying to chase down what it Could be.
trouble shoot the DS1-1 system with this Dynatek document. Won't require an oscilloscope or other exotic test equipment.
DC volts and ohms measurement capability are all that's required for these simple tests. The typical multi-meter is perfect.

https://www.mpsracing.com/instructions/ ... esting.pdf

But, first thing verified, it will demand positive current is actively coursing, independently, through the GL1000 wiring harness' yellow and blue primary leads to their respective double female terminals, under the rubber boot, when the key switch and handlebar switch are both selected to their Run positions..
That is a Must Have requirement in order to perform the VOLTAGE TEST steps with the DS1-1 rotor's magnet aligned with each DS1-1 pick-up module, then not aligned with each DS1-1 module pick-up .
Don't overlook the "red" wire necessity to operate the DS1-1 pick-up modules' internal switching circuitry.

Yes, I have personally performed this Dyna S system testing, two different times on a hot engine.
(Neither time was the DynaS I tested determined to be problematic)

An electrical engineer friend is a perfect candidate for the DS1-1 ignition system tests. You can do it, ;) too.
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GoldWing Tech Discussions”