Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#46

Post by rcmatt007 »

Sandy wrote:A short ride around the block seems to provide the "Power Steering" effect I was hoping for. I need a little better weather and cleaner roads before I go any further or faster to assess the handling. Will be watching closely for any deflection of the aluminum shoe. Bob, I think we were both at the Honda Ride the Red a few years back.
I recall the first time I drove a rig with an EML front end.... like going from a big truck to a race car
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
79 project, finished, FOR SALE
'86 1200 (Beth's)(FOR SALE) with motorvation sidecar (sidecar sold) , July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's) (FOR SALE). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#47

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I've never driven an EML but a friend used to have one. IIRC, it was basically a 2 wheeled chassis to which you attached everything from the bike's steering head back.

BTW: I was meaning to ask: How do you like the Shinko 240 tire on the front?
I really like the one I have on the rear (in fact, I'm planning to replace it with another one this year) but the last time I replaced the front tire the 240 was still only available in 16" rear so I bought another Duro HF308. It works well but I'm considering trying a 240 when it needs to be replaced.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#48

Post by rcmatt007 »

the EML for a BMW was exactly like you say, but the EML for a GL1200 only replaced the front end and rear wheel.
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
79 project, finished, FOR SALE
'86 1200 (Beth's)(FOR SALE) with motorvation sidecar (sidecar sold) , July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's) (FOR SALE). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#49

Post by ericheath »

1A2C532D-FB0E-43CE-8C9E-156750755C45.jpeg
1A2C532D-FB0E-43CE-8C9E-156750755C45.jpeg (143.19 KiB) Viewed 216 times
Just drawn free hand on my phone, but looks like you’ve cut trail more than in half. Should be fine for you.

There was a Flex-it (I think ) leaning side car that could lock up when at low speeds (parking lot) so you couldn’t tip over.

I’m looking at something as the golden years or getting closer.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#50

Post by rcmatt007 »

Ah, that was the name of the hack the old guy had... a "flex-it"
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
79 project, finished, FOR SALE
'86 1200 (Beth's)(FOR SALE) with motorvation sidecar (sidecar sold) , July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's) (FOR SALE). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#51

Post by calif wingnut »

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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#52

Post by Sandy »

ericheath wrote:1A2C532D-FB0E-43CE-8C9E-156750755C45.jpeg

Just drawn free hand on my phone, but looks like you’ve cut trail more than in half. Should be fine for you.

There was a Flex-it (I think ) leaning side car that could lock up when at low speeds (parking lot) so you couldn’t tip over.

I’m looking at something as the golden years or getting closer.
Eric:
Thanks for that pic, I will keep copy of it for future reference.
I was finding that I was using the SC unit less and less due to the heavy steering / getting older, and my available other options for riding.
Reducing the trail was a way to give yourself "power steering" and most other solutions were more expensive than I wanted.
Yet to realize the reliability of this design, but I will be sure to report as the weather begins to co-operate and I can get out and try this thing out. If it works out, maybe the Delta Wing will get some new shoes.
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#53

Post by Sandy »

"I would still take things very easy until you are sure of it and watch for the steering to become twitchy at higher speeds. Something else to watch is the studs in the end of the forks because they weren't intended to take anywhere near the loads they will now have."
Took the GL/SC out for a 17 mile essential run for groceries. Am pleased with the lighter handling. Immediately noticeable but still quite controllable.
To avoid any future "I told you so's" I built a bracket to extend from the front of the fork shoe up to the caliper bracket to balance any deflection of the leading legs.
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#54

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I don't know if that will help but it sure won't hurt.

This is sort of like when I made the subframe for my GL500 by welding up pieces cut from a cheap steel bed frame https://www.cx500forum.com/threads/eccl ... ost-320973
I wasn't sure if it would be strong enough to resist twisting so I took it pretty easy until I developed confidence in it. I wouldn't have been alarmed if I'd had to make a new one in a year or 2 because it twisted and I certainly didn't expect to still be using it on another bike 20 years and something like 150,000 Km later.
BTW: It did twist a bit but only to conform to where it bolts to the bike. And I did add some reinforcement 4 years ago when I modified it to better suit the new sidecar frame (the Velorex body is now on a Ural frame)
https://www.cx500forum.com/threads/eccl ... ost-521722
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#55

Post by gpzkat »

Edit: sorry to hijack post off the fork discussion. Hope no bother to anyone.

I just picked up a couple of GL1100's and the guy threw in an articulating sidecar frame ($5 for the lot). It looks well built and both the bikes have mounts. It once had an aircraft cockpit/fuselage, hand built out of aluminum with windows, but that's long gone. I will be selling the sidecar frame if there is any market for it.

I also put this info in 'new member' area -as I am one, but did a search on 'articulating' just to see what others think and are running on their bikes. I was thinking I'd mount a dog house and throw the pooch in for some rides, but dear Maggie is old and would freak out :-D

In the mid 80's I rode a 1951 BMW R51/2 with a Steib sidecar - TR 500 style if interested - in Greece for a couple years (where i bought it) and then back in CA for a few more. Took some getting used to, for sure. The bike and sidecar were restored to an OK condition cosmetically, but pretty dang good mechanically (it's a BMW after all). The '51 was prior to the Earles fork which is often seen, and the forks were pretty bad, even after I had Irv Seaver the local BMW guru find me some bronze bushings in a 40' container full of junk behind his shop. Great memories.

Back in the 80's there was a shop in the port of Pireaus that sold restored 50's era BMWs - the Greeks re-manufactured various small parts like footpegs for them. I wish I could find my pics, it was nice. I'd see them with a utility bed, loaded with bricks or lumber, or whatever, all over Athens. After the war I think that cars were really expensive, and the sidecars were a way to keep moving. There were quite a few of them motoring around.

Image
ericheath wrote:Have you ever ridden an articulating bike with sidecar? One where wheel of the side car is allowed to tilt the same amount and direction the bike leans? It seems it would be truer to motorcycle riding and maybe handle better in corners.

I’ve never seen them, just read about them.
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#56

Post by Sandy »

Sidecar Bob wrote:I don't know if that will help but it sure won't hurt.
I can report that the leading leg or axle modification works as I had hopped.
The rig is much lighter to pilot and left/right turns are easier.
It tracks straight and true at speed with no tendancy to wobble or pull.
I noticed also that riding on secondary roads with a crest in the middle does not pull the rig right as before.
It also does not pull the rig to the right at speed over 55mph as the wind pressure builds on the sidecar.
I attribute this to the mechanical advantage, assumbing the wind and road crest still pull on the rig but the mechanical advantage overcomes the feeling.
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#57

Post by rcmatt007 »

the issue for articulating sidecars is whether the articulating mechanism works freely, or does it bind up because of the forces it is under. There would be nothing but a disaster if it froze whilst in a turn. The early ones, like that sidecar frame were on smaller bikes and at a time when speeds were less. It has a fairly simple cantilever system, but even tose have four pivot points that have to work. The "equalean" had a track that a ball had to glide through and the whole sidecar leaned. They placed a smaller wheel in the middle of the sidecar (seat) to do this. I only ever saw ads for the equalean and over decades of going to the national rallies of the US sidecar association I do not recall ever seeing one. There was an old guy out of SoCal who would show up with a triumph and flexit in California events.... that was about 40 years ago
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
79 project, finished, FOR SALE
'86 1200 (Beth's)(FOR SALE) with motorvation sidecar (sidecar sold) , July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's) (FOR SALE). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: Front end for sidecar use - who changed their forks?

#58

Post by Sidecar Bob »

FWIW, my main reason for getting a sidecar in the first place was so I could drive it in winter and not fall over on slippery roads and my purpose for getting a second sidecar for my summer bike was so I could take dirt/gravel roads (usually much better scenery than the paved ones) without worrying about getting half way there and discovering that the grader had been through and the road surface was deep & loose. In either case a leaning sidecar would have no advantage over a 2 wheeler.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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