Gears grinding

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Norbert R
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Gears grinding

#1

Post by Norbert R »

Hi guys,
My gearshifts have steadily become more and more "crunching" going up and down through all 5 gears.
Clutch plates and springs all measured well within spec when I had the motor apart, clutch basket smooth, no grooves or wear, all gears, dogs and selector forks looked pristine.
Clutch cable is new, made no difference, routing is not the problem either.
I have adjusted the clutch cable as per the factory manual maybe 50 times, I've adjusted it too tight, too loose, and everywhere in between as well, with no improvement.
Using Motul motorcycle oil.

Gets slightly worse when fully warmed up.

If it's not a cable adjustment issue, what else could be causing the gears to grind and crunch when shifting ?
Could it be a problem with that little lifter mechanism with the three ball bearings behind the clutch cover ?
Could it possibly be some kind of clearance issue behind the front engine cover where the shifter mechanism is ?

Appreciate any thoughts and advice, thanks !
Nulla futuit datum...
1977 GL1000 - BOTM April 2015
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jdvorchak
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Re: Gears grinding

#2

Post by jdvorchak »

Do you have stock OEM levers and mounts correct for your model? Aftermarket fat grips? I'm thinking the clutch throw is not enough to fully disengage the clutch.
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Previous bikes: 84 GL1200 STD, 83 KZ550LTD, 83 CB1000, 78 CB400A, 82 CB900F, 79 CB750K, 2001 GL1800, 2000 Dyna Super Glide, 1972 CB350 K4, 1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 650 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
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ericheath
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Re: Gears grinding

#3

Post by ericheath »

The issue has come up before when people use a front cover gasket that's too thin, I think. Try a search or wait for an expert to weigh in.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Norbert R
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Re: Gears grinding

#4

Post by Norbert R »

jdvorchak wrote:Do you have stock OEM levers and mounts correct for your model? Aftermarket fat grips? I'm thinking the clutch throw is not enough to fully disengage the clutch.
John my thoughts have also gone there - I do have slightly thicker grips, but have previously bent the clutch lever to give it more travel, with no improvement.
Also, the clutch action happens right at the beginning of the lever's travel. The last 2/3 of lever travel seem to have no effect on clutch action.

Something I forgot to mention - sometimes the clutch doesnt engage nice and smoothly when the lever is let out, it sort of snatches or grabs. Kinda like if you just dumped the clutch, it's not a nice smooth application of drive.
Just about when the lever is let out completely, the clutch grabs and drive in applied rather abruptly.

@ Eric, reading up on the front cover gasket I dont think that's where the issue is, mechanism has a nice easy action through all gears.
Nulla futuit datum...
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wingrider
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Re: Gears grinding

#5

Post by wingrider »

I would venture a guess you have something going on in your clutch...That is pretty quick engagement, and the fact you say it sometimes grabs, would make me take a look under the cover, and potentially pull the clutch.
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Gears grinding

#6

Post by Whiskerfish »

Yea I had one that had a intermittent grab issue and it turned out the pressure plate was missing some bolts!! I seriously doubt that is your issue knowing the quality rebuild you did but just the same I would want a look inside there.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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jdvorchak
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Re: Gears grinding

#7

Post by jdvorchak »

I guess I didn't realize that you just did a rebuild. I would pull the clutch apart and make sure you didn't crack the pressure spring holder and that all of the friction and steel plates are in the correct order and fit fully down. Pretty easy to get that bottom couple of plates not all the way seated. And it's easy to crack that spring plate if you didn't tighten them down slowly in a star pattern. It takes me forever to get one tight as I usually do no more that about 1/3 turn on each bolt once they all make contact.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help:
http://ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST


Don't fix it 'til it's broke...
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L

71 CL350 with Bingham side car
2021 HD Triglide
2008 HD Dyna Low Rider
83 KZ1100L1 Son totaled it
83 KZ550LTD Shaft sold

Previous bikes: 84 GL1200 STD, 83 KZ550LTD, 83 CB1000, 78 CB400A, 82 CB900F, 79 CB750K, 2001 GL1800, 2000 Dyna Super Glide, 1972 CB350 K4, 1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 650 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John
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Norbert R
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Re: Gears grinding

#8

Post by Norbert R »

Thanks guys - got my hands on two clutch covers that have their lifter mechanisms in place, will remove my cover on the weekend to inspect my mechanism and the clutch plates and see if I can spot anything amiss. Will let you know how it goes
Nulla futuit datum...
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Norbert R
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Re: Gears grinding

#9

Post by Norbert R »

Some feedback: pulled the clutch, everything in perfect condition, including the outer clutch basket.
Re-installed clutch and adjusted again as per workshop manual.
Felt a fair bit better, but not great, still some crunching into the gears shifting up and down.
Drained the Motul oil and put in normal Castrol Magnatec 10W40. Might just be imagining it, but pretty sure there is a further improvement.
So a lot of work and still not a good clutch action, but at least it is now at a point were it doesn't totaly ruin the enjoyment of every ride.
Think I'll tinker some more with the cable adjustment as and when I get time.
Thanks for the advice gents.
Nulla futuit datum...
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Gears grinding

#10

Post by Whiskerfish »

Well that is progress!! Sometimes it takes little steps
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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salukispeed
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Re: Gears grinding

#11

Post by salukispeed »

Another thing often missed besides plate thickness and basket condition is flatness of the plates. If warped they will act like a spring and as you pull the clutch to release them they distort/flex and take up the clearance you are trying to create and cause them to drag enough to crunch/grab. Sometimes they get wavy and sometimes they cup.. It does not take much.
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ericheath
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Re: Gears grinding

#12

Post by ericheath »

Hmmm, unseen until you pull them apart?
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Norbert R
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Re: Gears grinding

#13

Post by Norbert R »

@ Whiskerfish - exactly, any progress is good.

@ Salukispeec - good advice, thanks. I did check the plates on a machined surface,and they all seem perfectly flat.
Nulla futuit datum...
1977 GL1000 - BOTM April 2015
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Cafe Maximus Build Thread
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