Timing belts - Need help!

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Interstater55
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Timing belts - Need help!

#1

Post by Interstater55 »

I had the T-1 mark set with the pulleys in the correct position and marked the central pulley and engine block before releasing the tensioner bolts. Slipped off the old belt on left side and used the zip tie on a spanner trick to realign the left pulley to the correct marks. I then proceeded to put on the new belt. On to the left side now and released the tensioner bolts but then noticed the central pulley marks were off! Checked the T-1 and it is off too! So....I don't know what to do now. Can I rotate the engine to the T1 mark without damage to the engine? And why is the central pulley marks off?
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#2

Post by desertrefugee »

It is a delicate dance. The valve spring pressure can be maddening the first couple of times as it wants to pull the pulleys off alignment once released. Just start from scratch. If you're not horribly off, no damage will be done. Also, turning by hand is unlikely to do damage even if you do have a collision. Just be attentive to sudden resistance. Align the crank T1 mark, rotate the camshafts into position, and do the song and dance. Verify, verify, verify after setting to insure the T1 mark and both cam marks line up. Once they do, button her up. After futzing with it for a bit, you'll figure it out.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#3

Post by wingrider »

You can pull the belts back off, turn the crank backwards just a touch to see if it only moved a little. Then pay careful attention to all the pulleys as you put it back together...
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Interstater55
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#4

Post by Interstater55 »

Thank you both. I have a followup question based on both responses. Should I tighten down completely the tensioners before I rotate the engine? I know this sounds stupid but I'm now regretting attempting this on my own. But now I'm stuck. For instance I don't even know if its OK to hand rotate the engine without the belts on or not. And yes I should have researched this beforehand. Belts are on now, tensioner bolts loose, T1 is off mark as is central pulley.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#5

Post by Whiskerfish »

You can rotate the engine by hand and you should not have any issues as long as you do not force anything. With the plugs out it should rotate easily and if there is any piston to valve contact you will feel it and stop.

If it is off a tooth or two it should not be an issue just pull the belt off and fix it. If you have to rotate the crank or the cam some that is fine. Personally I do not bother trying to hold the cam on the right side. I just let it go and it rotates about a quarter turn then when I am ready to install the new belt I rotate it back. No big deal.

Relax, you got this far you can finish it. Once you finished you will wonder why you were stressing over it ;) ;)
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#6

Post by desertrefugee »

I always leave them loose and would advise that. The timing belts do not rely on tension, just the cogs. I always put the belt what seems to be a tooth or two ahead to compensate for the pulley/spring movement after I remove my special pulley holding tool (a big honking screwdriver).

Go through the motions a couple of times and after a bit it will start to seem more intuitive what needs to be done. Sorry to be so vague, but it is a task that's well-defined - it's just a matter of technique. I am pretty sure that no two of us are likely to do it using exactly the same approach. All that matters is that everything lines up when you're done.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#7

Post by desertrefugee »

Also what do you mean by the central pulley? You can ignore the crankshaft pulley. It's position is what you're reading off the flywheel, I.e. The T1 mark.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#8

Post by ericheath »

Central pulley marks (crank pulley) let you know which way it moves. It doesn't take much for the T1 mark to disappear from view. Crank marks tell you which way to return so not to bend a valve. Off enough marks on the belts and a valve can be bent in a millisecond.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#9

Post by Interstater55 »

I had to get away from it for awhile. As a novice to this I just panicked when the marks were off. I realize that this is certainly a well-defined task, and am fairly sure I'll become intuitive as I go at it again. I'm not happy that I revealed just how ignorant I am about this with my questions and what sounds a lot like whining to me now lol. I like the "it is a delicate dance" observation, so true. Yes I'll figure it out and hey, if need be, I looked and just so happens that I too have a "special pulley holding tool" too. Thanks to all.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#10

Post by robin1731 »

To help take away the chance of damage back off the valve adjusters. I do this on the RH side every time I change a belt. The cam "rolls" much less when doing it that way.

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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#11

Post by Interstater55 »

Ok here is what I have after another dance. Right hand side:
20160925_150315.jpg
20160925_150315.jpg (128.17 KiB) Viewed 591 times
Left side
Left side
20160925_150442.jpg (114.33 KiB) Viewed 591 times
Central
Central
20160925_150410.jpg (97.83 KiB) Viewed 591 times
I'm at T1. Both sides seem to be about one tooth off. I feel like I'm getting there maybe. I assume I should re-do yes?
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#12

Post by gltriker »

Yes.
Are you tensioning the left side timing belt before proceeding to installing the new right side timing belt?
If not, allow the tensioner to do its job, then tighten its 2 capscrews before moving to install the right side belt.
Check, again though, to see if the T1 mark is still centered in the timing hole and the camshaft pulley static timing marks are still aligned, before moving to the second belt's installation.
For clarity's sake-- any reference to left side and right side are determined when sitting on the seat. Not as when viewed from the front of the engine.
Last edited by gltriker on Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:14 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#13

Post by Whiskerfish »

Yea just keep fussing with it. You are close. Also make certain when looking at the alignment to get your eyes down to level with it and look straight on.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
Interstater55
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#14

Post by Interstater55 »

OK. I think that explains a lot as to my errors. I've been doing the right side as you sit on bike 1st, and not tightening completely the tensioner screws on either side so as to allow the tensioner springs to do their job, but its when I went to the left side when I noticed the marks off yesterday. That's when I panicked. I think I may have been hung up about that right side pulley rotating off the marks too much.
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Re: Timing belts - Need help!

#15

Post by gltriker »

"ShopTalk is your friend!" http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST

There is a very good tutorial specific to Timing Belts Removal/Installation located there, amongst a huge variety of other topics, as well. ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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