C5 Installation Question

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CYBORG
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#16

Post by CYBORG »

+1
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#17

Post by delling3 »

Thanks for tuning in to my continuing saga.

So, again I have a '78. '78 and '79 have "junction box" located at the front left side of the shelter. Replaces all of the spaghetti that is the wiring on the early wing with automotive style connectors, instead of all those individual bullet connectors.

After talking with Paul at C5, I was going to run power to the coils direct from the battery. Meanwhile, I was planning to run power to the ignition module from the Black/White wire that fed the coils on the OEM system. On the '78, the black/white connects to the junction box, and then exits from another connector to the coil harness. I figured I would simply cut the black/white wire off at the coil, tape off the balance of the wires in the coil harness, and splice the ignition module supply wire to the black and white. All sound good so far?

The OE system was working fine when removed. Now, measuring voltage between the connector on the junction box, and ground I see 0 VDC. Power to everything else on the bike. Obviously I missed something very fundamental in the wiring diagram. Where did I go wrong?

Again, thanks in advance for your help.
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
SnoBrdr
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#18

Post by SnoBrdr »

delling3 wrote:Thanks for tuning in to my continuing saga.

So, again I have a '78. '78 and '79 have "junction box" located at the front left side of the shelter. Replaces all of the spaghetti that is the wiring on the early wing with automotive style connectors, instead of all those individual bullet connectors.

After talking with Paul at C5, I was going to run power to the coils direct from the battery. Meanwhile, I was planning to run power to the ignition module from the Black/White wire that fed the coils on the OEM system. On the '78, the black/white connects to the junction box, and then exits from another connector to the coil harness. I figured I would simply cut the black/white wire off at the coil, tape off the balance of the wires in the coil harness, and splice the ignition module supply wire to the black and white. All sound good so far?

The OE system was working fine when removed. Now, measuring voltage between the connector on the junction box, and ground I see 0 VDC. Power to everything else on the bike. Obviously I missed something very fundamental in the wiring diagram. Where did I go wrong?

Again, thanks in advance for your help.
Why don't you just run it to the battery live the directions say.

If I'm understanding your issue.
78 GL1000 Original Owner 131k
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flyin900
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#19

Post by flyin900 »

I believe the black/white wire is switched through the on off run switch on the right hand switch setup, so do you have the switch in the run position? Just guessing from memory... and I don't remember what I had for breakfast today. :-D The solid black wire carries the constant 12VDC, so check your run switch.
Current Bikes:

1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#20

Post by delling3 »

Instructions suggest running coil power direct to battery, but module power to a lead that is switched by ignition switch. I went with Black/white to preserve kill switch function. Keyswitch "on" and killswitch to "run". O VDC at connector.
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
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flyin900
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#21

Post by flyin900 »

So if you look at the colour schematic for wiring for your bike in the Tech Section it shows that the power into the kill switch is by a black wire with possibly a brown stripe on the 78 year, or on the earlier models it is a solid black wire with brown coloured rings at key visible points on the harness to denote a black/brown wire designation.
The wire runs from the out connection on the ballast resistor by the coils and will supply either 12VDC when the starter button is activated, or reduced voltage when in the run position and the motor running. The opposite side is fed by a black 12V wire connected off the main key switch.
It you want to do some troubleshooting there seems to be a disconnect somewhere not letting the voltage through to the kill switch circuit. Check the ballast resistor if it is still in your circuit, if it is removed for the C5 system did you connect those two wires to allow voltage to flow through the old circuit to the kill switch?
Current Bikes:

1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#22

Post by delling3 »

Well, little by little, I am getting there.

Flyin900 spotted the "missing link". C5 instructions mention removing the ballast resistor, but not what to do with the leads. After tying the leads to the ballast together, I have voltage where it should be.

Got everything buttoned back up, and set the timing as per the instructions. The bike fired up and settled into a nice idle with a lot less fuss than before. Great, right? I shut the engine down, and went about tidying up a few things. After 20 or so minutes, I went to restart, and then things got real interesting. The bike struggled to start, didn't want to idle (choke or no choke, wouldn't take any throttle), the engine was kicking back, and there was a serious clatter coming from the bottom end. Sounded (to me) like a severe case of out-of-sync carbs, except, how does a set of carbs go out of sync sitting for 20 minutes?

What the heck? I rechecked the timing on the C5 - spot on. Thoughts?
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
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ericheath
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#23

Post by ericheath »

Setting timing at T1or F1? Should be T1 with C5.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#24

Post by delling3 »

T1.
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#25

Post by delling3 »

Like I said, first time I started it went fine. Sat for 20 minutes, and suddenly all heck broke loose.

I tend to think the worst first - timing belt skipped? Brand new belts this past winter - only a couple hundred miles on 'em.
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
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brianinpa
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#26

Post by brianinpa »

What are the condition/age of the plugs?
Brian
ADC(AW) - US Navy Retired 1983-2003
If you aren't having fun doing it, find something else to do.

1984 Standard - 18,000 miles - Naked... the way it should be
1987 Interstate - 62,000 miles - Resurrected from the rust bucket
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Track T 2411
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#27

Post by Track T 2411 »

It would seem to me that only a few things could change in that time. I would go through the electrical connections you've made looking for something loose, and check for any fuel related issues. If you can keep it running at all, I'd also check for spark. It's gotta be something simple. My 2 cents...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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delling3
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#28

Post by delling3 »

Plugs are brand new.
delling3

1979 Yamaha XS750SF

Previous:
1978 GL1000 - JUNE 2017 BOTM: Sold
2006 Kawasaki Concours: Sold
1995 Kawasaki Concours: Crashed/totalled.
1976 GL1000: LAST RESTORATION, sold
1981 Honda CB900F Supersport: 3rd restoration, sold.
1979 Yamaha XS-750F: 2nd restoration, sold.
1982 Honda FT-500 Ascot: First (only) new bike. Family forces sale.
1973 CB500 Four: First restoration, long gone.
1972 Suzuki TS-100: First bike, sold.

Only dead fish go with the flow . . .
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robin1731
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#29

Post by robin1731 »

Check the battery voltage. Both key on and off.

.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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Track T 2411
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Re: C5 Installation Question

#30

Post by Track T 2411 »

When I suggested to check for spark, I meant it as a means to isolate the problem cylinder(s) and eliminate or identify that possibility. No offense, but even a new plug can fail or be defective out of the box. Just saying...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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