At a loss of what to try next. Latest update

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chewy999
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At a loss of what to try next. Latest update

#1

Post by chewy999 »

The new rectifier arrived so fitted it today, started up and still reads 16v across the battery at tick over! crying1

Tried running an independent earth from the green rectifier wire to the negative side of the battery, but no difference. Then checked the continuity from the rectifier black wire to the end where it plugs into the (new) ignition switch, and all was good. Just don't know what to do next.
What would happen if I cut the black (sense) wire?
What does the sense wire sense? From the wiring diagram, it goes to the ignition switch, the fan motor and the start button/stop switch! Also goes to the fuse box.
I also read somewhere that this may be solved by fitting a relay (I think) in the circuit, but no idea how that is achieved, maybe someone can explain in simple terms!

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Last edited by chewy999 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#2

Post by 77Gowing »

Have you tried other meters to see what they measure compared to yours? It is possible your meter is not properly calibrated. I know you have been through the ringer on this. What kind of meter do you have and how much bread did you put into it? Good luck.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#3

Post by Toehead »

Are you trying to stick to originality by running a stock replacement? A modern rectifier/regulator combo gets rid of the sense wire completed.

The one from the CBR600RR bolts right in and the wire colors are even right... just splice the connector off of your old rectifier. You can get them cheap on ebay.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#4

Post by Whiskerfish »

The sense wire is the signal to the regulator that the system is low or high. Basically if the system is reading 12 volts the sense wire tells that to the regulator and then the regulator will let all of the voltage through to bump up the system voltage. Once the system gets up to full charge (Approximately 14.5 volts) the sense wire conveys that to the regulator and then it reduces the voltage going into the system so it does not over charge and fry stuff.
Unfortunately the way the sense wire is routed through the system it has several connections one of which is the ignition switch. There is usually some voltage loss through those connections so the sense wire is not always reporting the correct information. Often there may be 1-2 volts difference between what the sense wire reports to the regulator and what is actually happening at the battery. So then the system overcharges. A relay is installed to provide clean (Accurate) power to the regulator.
The best thing to do is measure the voltage at the battery with the key on and then measure it at the sense wire to see if there is a difference.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#5

Post by chewy999 »

I have two meters, an old one with a needle which I find easier to use and a digital one. Used the newer one today to see if there was a difference.
I checked all the connections from the rectifier black wire to the ignition switch, fuse box, starter switch and on/off switch and the fan motor. All passed the continuity test and the junctions cleaned although they didn't look bad. Cleaned the earth at the could and then started her up. Across the battery at 4000 revs it showed 15.18 volts, but when I did the same test from the black wire and the red wires, it was just below 15 volts, so not far off the upper limit.
Going to take the battery to be tested although it was new not to long ago so would be surprised if it was faulty.
Before I bite the bullet and get another rectifier, is there anything else to try? Is it a guarantee that the CBR600 rectifier will work Ok? Sounds to good to be true!

anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1
Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#6

Post by gltriker »

Chewy999 said "Is it a guarantee that the CBR600 rectifier will work Ok? Sounds to good to be true!"

I can't recall any operational integrity complaints after the installation of one of the eBay sourced, used, CBR600RR Shindengen FH008 units. None. Mine has performed consistently well over the last 4 years, 21,000+ miles.

I know, as a fact, there are many other members here (and countless folks elsewhere on the Internet) that have installed the "used" FH008 rectifier/regulator assembly on their rides, several years before my trike got one.
A substandard battery and wire connections must always be corrected beforehand, too.

The FH008 units don't utilize a "sense" wire to operate. tumb2
Last edited by gltriker on Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#7

Post by chewy999 »

gltriker wrote:I can't recall any operational integrity complaints after the installation of one of the eBay sourced, used, CBR600RR Shindengen units. None.
They don't utilize a "sense" wire to operate.
That is my plan B if all else fails! lolol

anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1
Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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gltriker
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#8

Post by gltriker »

chewy999 wrote:
gltriker wrote:I can't recall any operational integrity complaints after the installation of one of the eBay sourced, used, CBR600RR Shindengen units. None.
They don't utilize a "sense" wire to operate.
That is my plan B if all else fails! lolol

anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1
Read this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47150

You trust Old Fogey's advice, too, correct? ;)

http://www.wingovations.com/regulator-r ... 4579471117
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#9

Post by chewy999 »

gltriker wrote:
chewy999 wrote:
gltriker wrote:I can't recall any operational integrity complaints after the installation of one of the eBay sourced, used, CBR600RR Shindengen units. None.
They don't utilize a "sense" wire to operate.
That is my plan B if all else fails! lolol

anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1
Read this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47150

You trust Old Fogey's advice, too, correct? ;)

http://www.wingovations.com/regulator-r ... 4579471117
Of course, doesn't everybody? :shock:

Take it that they work fine on the 1100 and not just the 1000? Many thanks for the advice.

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Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#10

Post by desertrefugee »

I had a similar issue on my '78. I replaced the R/R unit and still had nearly 16V during full charging (>2000RPM). During my refurb/resto, I had blasted and painted the battery box. It seems there is a rather important ground that attaches to the box. I hadn't cleaned the paint well under that connection. Once I did that, the regulation began operating normally (just under 14V at full charge). I'm not sure if the 1100 had that same ground - and I'm sure you haven't recently painted the box, but maybe...just maybe.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#11

Post by chewy999 »

desertrefugee wrote:I had a similar issue on my '78. I replaced the R/R unit and still had nearly 16V during full charging (>2000RPM). During my refurb/resto, I had blasted and painted the battery box. It seems there is a rather important ground that attaches to the box. I hadn't cleaned the paint well under that connection. Once I did that, the regulation began operating normally (just under 14V at full charge). I'm not sure if the 1100 had that same ground - and I'm sure you haven't recently painted the box, but maybe...just maybe.
My understanding :IDTS: is that on my 1100, the battery box literally just holds the battery, there is nothing actually 'fitted' to the box so nothing has to be earthed. Of course there is a slight chance that I may be wrong, hard to believe I know, but I've been wrong before! :shock:

So yes, I did paint the battery box a while ago.

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Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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chewy999
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#12

Post by chewy999 »

Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#13

Post by flyin900 »

Just a thought here.

You have a full load with the headlight and tail lights on in the electrical system? I am not sure if on the european spec machines these are a on when the bike is in the run state.
When I first got the 1976 finished I had pulled the headlight/tail light fuse out when I was troubleshooting another system so with the ignition on there wasn't the heavy drain from the headlight on my battery. When I did a voltage check at the battery to check the charging system with the bike running I was getting those numbers in the high +15 V range. When I replaced the headlight fuse the extra load of those lights pulled the readings down into the high 12V to low 14V range depending on RPM.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#14

Post by chewy999 »

I will check again with the headlight on, but the European spec bike has an on/off switch for the lights so I'd have thought there was no load on the system to start with.
Even though I'm happy with the actual continuity of the wiring, perhaps one or more of the actual 37 year old connectors is the problem although there didn't appear to be any corrosion, but then what do I know. I don't want to bother to much longer chasing a fault I'm unsure of, so may try a CBR600 rectifier.

anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1 anim-cheers1
Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
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Re: At a loss of what to try next.

#15

Post by sunnbobb »

I did the conversion on my 1100 several years ago. Absolutely no issues And yes the one in the ebay ad is the correct one.
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