Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
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- Chrome Member
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
Its propped up on the edge of the lift, look near the bottom of the picture. No worries!
1977 GL1000, 1200 transplant, sold
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
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- Chrome Member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:36 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
UPDATE! Finally got around to checking out the two engines a friend gave me. Number 1 hade nice cylinder walls, but all the rod and main brgs were in copper. Number two had a missing player...... found most of it sitting downstairs on top of transmission. I stripped both engines for anything usable and began a short craigslist search for another running organ donor. Well I hit the jackpot! Found a 75 that was all original with 22k miles on it that also came with a 78 that was stripped down to the frame for what was supposed to become a cafe racer. The frame was painted and a 76 tank installed, then the guy lost interest. Well as it turns out the 75 is a time capsule that it fully functional, runs BEAUTIFULLY! It looks like someone went down to the dealer with a 75 Cycle World magazine, picked out a red wing , and showed the dealer everything he wanted on it. Except for the missing cb mike, the reverse Dunstalls and the blown headlight it all works and is in great shape. The Cycle Sound radio doesnt even crackle!
The 78 came with a fresh motor that has great brgs and has had new rings installed. Both bikes have clear titles and the 75 was on the road last year. Now that would have been more than a good bargain for the sub $900 I forked over. But theres more! The guy picked up any part for a GL1000 that came his way. There is so much that my 1/2 ton Ram was squatting BEFORE i hooked the trailer up with the bikes on it.
As expected, things have changed. Due to space being lacking in my shop. I'm going to swap out the engine in my blue bike for the 78 ( might move the cams and kick starter stuff over) and sometime next year sell it, I have fallen hard for the red 75! I will swap out the 75 Dunstall mufflers for the 77 factory muffler, its the right thing to do to get the 75 where it should be! The black 78 is kinda up in the air as I never had any intentions other than to pull the engine out and get rid of the rest.
I thank all of you for your guidance with my engine issue. Problem solved!
The 78 came with a fresh motor that has great brgs and has had new rings installed. Both bikes have clear titles and the 75 was on the road last year. Now that would have been more than a good bargain for the sub $900 I forked over. But theres more! The guy picked up any part for a GL1000 that came his way. There is so much that my 1/2 ton Ram was squatting BEFORE i hooked the trailer up with the bikes on it.
As expected, things have changed. Due to space being lacking in my shop. I'm going to swap out the engine in my blue bike for the 78 ( might move the cams and kick starter stuff over) and sometime next year sell it, I have fallen hard for the red 75! I will swap out the 75 Dunstall mufflers for the 77 factory muffler, its the right thing to do to get the 75 where it should be! The black 78 is kinda up in the air as I never had any intentions other than to pull the engine out and get rid of the rest.
I thank all of you for your guidance with my engine issue. Problem solved!
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1977 GL1000, 1200 transplant, sold
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
- Track T 2411
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
SCORE! The '75 is sweet, and my favorite color, too! Looks like something 'really bad' happened to that other engine. I would not have liked to hear what that sounded like!
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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- Chrome Member
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- Location: Delaware
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
That engine sat under a bench for quite a few years. My wife came out to the garage to find out what I was laughing at, that stuff just gets me. The inside of the cylinder head didn't have a single mark on it.
1977 GL1000, 1200 transplant, sold
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
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- Chrome Member
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:36 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
One more question,
I made the appropriate timing mark on the 78 crank as I am using 77 cams/ignition. Am I correct it that this new mark is the new T mark ?
I made the appropriate timing mark on the 78 crank as I am using 77 cams/ignition. Am I correct it that this new mark is the new T mark ?
1977 GL1000, 1200 transplant, sold
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
No, it’s your F Mark. T Mark is TDC and is used to set valves. F Mark is for setting points, Dyna ignition.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
TDC mark never changes jut the F mark as it it the base for your ignition system.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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- Chrome Member
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- Location: Delaware
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
Thanks for clearing that up!
1977 GL1000, 1200 transplant, sold
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
1976 GL1000
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
1974 CB360
1961 T20 Tiger cub SL
1959 T20 Tiger cub S
03 Shadow Spirit 750
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- Location: South Carolina
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
If you have micrometers, and dial bore gauges. you can clearance bearings a small amount, plastigage will work for fitting a bearing to journal dimension, clearance. From grinding crankshafts. line boring mains, and rebuilding rods for many years I have seen some different ways to skin a cat.One way to work around the lack of colored bearings, or any bearing is to look at the crankshaft instead of bearings. Chrome plating the journals can pick up a little size, welding the journal, and regrinding is a way. Tightening up the main saddles for mains, or running the rod on the small side can help the rod clearance. finding a crossover bearing from something else could work, clearance is clearance. I think these guys nailed it.
1977 Gl 1000
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
- CYBORG
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
You've done these things with a Goldwing engine?Wangthang wrote:If you have micrometers, and dial bore gauges. you can clearance bearings a small amount, plastigage will work for fitting a bearing to journal dimension, clearance. From grinding crankshafts. line boring mains, and rebuilding rods for many years I have seen some different ways to skin a cat.One way to work around the lack of colored bearings, or any bearing is to look at the crankshaft instead of bearings. Chrome plating the journals can pick up a little size, welding the journal, and regrinding is a way. Tightening up the main saddles for mains, or running the rod on the small side can help the rod clearance. finding a crossover bearing from something else could work, clearance is clearance. I think these guys nailed it.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
I have never been inside a Goldwing. I worked in engine machine shops. I was simply stating clearance is clearance. I have seen crank journals ground to fit rods from other engines. I ground a 351 Winsor crank journal down with 1/16" stroke and ran 300 six cylinder rods.
1977 Gl 1000
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
- CYBORG
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
Not questioning your skills.. But you should know that the Goldwings are a little different breed then the American V8. The manual says that the crankshaft can not be ground because of the bearing surface coating. And the valve can't be ground, for the same reason. I have rebuilt a number of them, and had even more apart. My concern about your comments are that someone may take them at face value, and build an engine that is bad again at 60,000 miles, instead of the 400,000 they are known to be good for, and many have documented even more
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:30 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
So the problem lies with the color coded, specialty lined main bearings. I assume when you say crank can't be ground because of bearing surface coating, you are referring to the bearing surface not the journal surface. You could chrome the crank journals to take up some clearance, provided you have some good coated bearings, but that could get pricey. I guess that's why everyone here says when you got internal problems, just buy a 500 dollar engine. When they took the lead outta gas they said the valves could not be ground because the lead acted as a lubricant. Everyone ground them.
1977 Gl 1000
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
- robin1731
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- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
Wangthang wrote:So the problem lies with the color coded, specialty lined main bearings. I assume when you say crank can't be ground because of bearing surface coating, you are referring to the bearing surface not the journal surface. You could chrome the crank journals to take up some clearance, provided you have some good coated bearings, but that could get pricey. I guess that's why everyone here says when you got internal problems, just buy a 500 dollar engine. When they took the lead outta gas they said the valves could not be ground because the lead acted as a lubricant. Everyone ground them.
Honda put a stellite coating on the valves. That is why you cannot grind them. Remove that coating and the valves have a much shorter life. I grind Kawasaki valves from the same era all the time. As I recall the valve seats were the issue when lead was removed.
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- CYBORG
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Re: Combining a 77 and 78 engine to make one.
I meant to say the surface of the journals have a special coating that should not be ground. As do the valves that should not be ground. The color identification system is much the same as the system in the old days, called blue printing. But done at the factory. Can it be done? Sure. Is it cost effective? Not even close. Not for a person who does not have FREE use of a machine shop. And then you have an engine that is so far from stock parts, that anyone else trying to service it, would be lost. I have had several of these engines apart. I have cranks, and pistons, and bearings laying around. And until a source of reasonable priced bearings, in the proper colors, is available, they will continue to wait on the self. I have also rebuilt many auto engines which are much easier and cheaper then the Goldwing engines.
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200