Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

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John Schmidt
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Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#1

Post by John Schmidt »

I finally broke down and bought a second spring compressor and switched arms around so I now have two...one has matching length long arms and the other matching length short. Once done, I was finally able to remove the springs on #1, should have done the switch a couple weeks ago but life tends to happen, more so as you age. So, went to install the first new valve stem seal by lightly tapping it into place with an installation tool. Suddenly, I realized the upper half of the seal had separated from the base....probably a good thing I'm going to church in the morning. ;) The bottom section hadn't yet dropped into the "valley" or notch a fraction of an inch below the top of the guide and the top of the guide caused the top half to separate/tear. I assume that's where it's supposed to sit(in the notch) in order to prevent the seal from moving up/down with the valve. Frankly, I didn't pay attention to where the OEM seal was situated before removing it so I may have to remove another valve spring just to be certain. I used the damaged new seal to test it and by pressing it a bit further down it did drop into the notch that exists a slight bit below the top crown were the valve stem exits. I ordered these off Ebay, a viton based product and supposedly were for the 1200 and a number of other Honda motors.

I guess my question is this; are the seals supposed to slip all the way down into the "valley" or notched area slightly below the top wider section of the guide? If I need to I guess I could just order some OEM seals, that gets a bit pricey for only eight at $9.56 ea.

Pictures are worth at least a dime, so this is the "notch" on the valve guide to which I'm referring. I've slipped a new seal on only as far as just covering the top "crown" of the valve guide, then manually moved the valve stem up/down to see what would happen. As suspected, on the second movement up which would simulate the valve closing, the seal came up with it. Tried it a couple more times, same action of the seal and when pressing the valve back in(open) the seal doesn't reseat itself. So again my question is....are the valve stem seals supposed to sit in that smaller diameter area below the top of the guide, the area I'm pointing to in the first picture?
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1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
1998 Valkyrie Tourer, my Honda Davidson ;) Image
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#2

Post by Whiskerfish »

Yes on a 1000 they do. I would presume it is the same on that head.
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#3

Post by CYBORG »

They do on a 1200 as well. It's what keeps the motion of the valve from pulling them off the guide
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#4

Post by John Schmidt »

Thanks for getting back to me on this, I went ahead and pulled another set of springs and the OEM seals were down where I suspected they should be. I've done a number of seals on engines over the years but mostly automotive, plus it has been quite awhile so memories fade with age. It just bothered me that using the tool caused damage to the new seal and made me wonder just how far down it should go on the guide. This evening I went ahead and did the entire right side, just oiled up the guide and the inside of the new seal and pressed them in place with a slight twisting motion....by hand this time, no tool used. Took just over an hour to do the right side, left side will be a bit more difficult if done on the sidestand. I might put the bike on the jack/lift and raise it up level and a little higher, stabilize it with some jack stands, that will put the left side at a more accessible angle/level.
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
1998 Valkyrie Tourer, my Honda Davidson ;) Image
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#5

Post by Whiskerfish »

yea they normally slip on without much issue. I have never tried to do it with a tool.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#6

Post by CYBORG »

Can't say I have ever used a tool. Not sure I have even seen a tool to do that
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#7

Post by John Schmidt »

CYBORG wrote:Can't say I have ever used a tool. Not sure I have even seen a tool to do that
The link will show the kit I got some time ago for "my price".....free! Thought I'd give it a whirl this time, now decided no more whirls. ;) The only piece I found of any use is the removal pliers at the top, the insertion tools are the two at the bottom right. Whichever seal fits into the recessed end is the one to use, screw that one into the large center piece and tap lightly with a hammer. The row of smaller parts at lower left are more for when you're rebuilding a head and the valves are out. Use the size that fits the guide hole in the head and slip the seal on that end, screw the other end into the center piece and tap with hammer. The use of those smaller items at the lower left is supposed to make certain the seal is centered over the valve guide hole for when you insert the new/reground valve. I'll find a use for the kit pieces, paper weight possibly except for the removal pliers. But tapping with a hammer causes the tool to pinch the new seal between the top of the guide and the tool itself. Learning by trial and error is often an expensive lesson, in this case I was able to find some replacements locally....on a Sunday no less. :IDTS:
I'll address the left side today but since these old joints don't bend like they used to(80 in a couple months), I'll need to get it off the sidestand....possibly on my lift/jack to get it up level and a bit higher.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Valve-Ste ... SwLN5WlJDt
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
1998 Valkyrie Tourer, my Honda Davidson ;) Image
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#8

Post by CYBORG »

that's pretty cool. Being a lover of tools, it would be nice to have in my "collection". There are a lot of things I have managed to figure out without a special tool. But when a tool presented itself, it was always nice to have. Some tools I have only used a couple of times over a period of several years,....but nice to have when you need it. I'll have to give that one some thought
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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John Schmidt
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#9

Post by John Schmidt »

Cyborg, I not too impressed with it now that I know the problem(s) it can create. I'm certain using the insertion tool from the lower right was responsible for damaging the first seal I installed with it. I guess on some motors with limited access space, one could use the insertion tool but no hammer. Just use it by hand and slip the seal in place, would be handy for those with large hands/fingers. Like I said, the only part of the kit I've found useful so far is the seal removal pliers, the ends of the arms are serrated to grip the old seal and worked great on the intakes due to limited access for fat fingers.
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
1998 Valkyrie Tourer, my Honda Davidson ;) Image
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CYBORG
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Re: Question re. valve seals on a 1200: Pictures added.

#10

Post by CYBORG »

Thanks for the info. I don't do that many anymore,...especially off the bike. I guess maybe I'm set in my ways of doing things. Haven't needed a tool for the last 50 years :lol:
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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