Electrical and Starter issue questions
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- Johnnygoesnaked
- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:49 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Electrical and Starter issue questions
Hi there!
I was hoping for some feedback. Now this is an issue that's more advanced than my skillset and I'd appreciate some input, however at the moment it's not urgent and more of something I'd like to get sorted.
On my GL1100 1981 interstate, I've had to replace the speedo with an earlier version.
The 81interstate speedo runs a few auxiliary functions power through it, such as the air pressure indicators.
The replacement speedo (older model) doesn't have that.
So then my headlight power stopped working. there's no power coming off the headlight plug at all, low or hi beam.
I've rewired my headlight straight to the fuse box on low beam, though it's not the best solution, I'd prefer to have the original electric set up working.
So the second issue that's come up since then is that the bike struggles to turn over when starting it intermittently. This never happens on a cold start, only after I've run the bike and in the heat of the middle of the day.
Looking at the wiring diagrams, I wonder if these two issues are related due to the black wire that feeds into the starter and rectifier. Also I can see that the power for the headlights do head through the speedo, though again, right now none of the original plug's wires read anything at the moment (I have a spare wired in currently).
any thoughts?
http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/download/ ... &mode=view
I was hoping for some feedback. Now this is an issue that's more advanced than my skillset and I'd appreciate some input, however at the moment it's not urgent and more of something I'd like to get sorted.
On my GL1100 1981 interstate, I've had to replace the speedo with an earlier version.
The 81interstate speedo runs a few auxiliary functions power through it, such as the air pressure indicators.
The replacement speedo (older model) doesn't have that.
So then my headlight power stopped working. there's no power coming off the headlight plug at all, low or hi beam.
I've rewired my headlight straight to the fuse box on low beam, though it's not the best solution, I'd prefer to have the original electric set up working.
So the second issue that's come up since then is that the bike struggles to turn over when starting it intermittently. This never happens on a cold start, only after I've run the bike and in the heat of the middle of the day.
Looking at the wiring diagrams, I wonder if these two issues are related due to the black wire that feeds into the starter and rectifier. Also I can see that the power for the headlights do head through the speedo, though again, right now none of the original plug's wires read anything at the moment (I have a spare wired in currently).
any thoughts?
http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/download/ ... &mode=view
GL1100 interstate 81, stock black, naked with panniers
- Track T 2411
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 8482
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 9:37 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Track+T+2411/
- Location: Prairie du Sac Wisconsin
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Your issues may or may not be related. The starter is known to have issues when warm if it needs a good cleaning. They get really gunked up inside which causes poor performance. The starter button itself is also a weak point, mostly because the headlight circuit runs through it (the headlight cuts out when the starter button is depressed so the starter has full juice). There are numerous threads related to both issues.
BTW, I have a spare '81 speedo I could part with...
BTW, I have a spare '81 speedo I could part with...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
- Johnnygoesnaked
- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:49 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Thanks mate great advice! Mmm looks like I'd have to remove the engine to get to the started. Perhaps a winter project then.
About the speedo - I just bought another speedo, though it's not exactly the same one hence this issue - so I don't think it's the time to buy yet another. But perhaps down the road, thank you
About the speedo - I just bought another speedo, though it's not exactly the same one hence this issue - so I don't think it's the time to buy yet another. But perhaps down the road, thank you
GL1100 interstate 81, stock black, naked with panniers
- Track T 2411
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 8482
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 9:37 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Track+T+2411/
- Location: Prairie du Sac Wisconsin
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
The starter can be removed without removing the engine, even though the Clymers manual says otherwise. The bike needs to be on the side stand when reinstalling the starter. Lining up the starter shaft splines with the gear inside the case can be a bit of a challenge, but very doable. I've done it three or four times...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
- Johnnygoesnaked
- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:49 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Right. Ok, good to know. Any words on how you do it as an addition to the clymers manual perhaps?
GL1100 interstate 81, stock black, naked with panniers
- 77Gowing
- True Blue Steel Biker
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:31 pm
- Location: San Angelo, Texas
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Shoptalk has a PDF downloadable Honda service manual.
"Less is More" Anonymous
77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold )
2014 Yamaha 950 V Star (sold)
2017 Indian Scout Std w/ABS (sold)
2009 Honda VTX1300R "Me Brudder's" (sold)
1984 Honda Interstate "84' 2outa4." Gone
1982 Honda GL1100 "After thought." Gone
77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold )
2014 Yamaha 950 V Star (sold)
2017 Indian Scout Std w/ABS (sold)
2009 Honda VTX1300R "Me Brudder's" (sold)
1984 Honda Interstate "84' 2outa4." Gone
1982 Honda GL1100 "After thought." Gone
- Track T 2411
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 8482
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 9:37 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Track+T+2411/
- Location: Prairie du Sac Wisconsin
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Removal is pretty straight forward. On the 1100, I don't think you have to remove or loosen the head pipe (on the 1000 you do), because I did mine when the exhaust was off anyway. Be careful when removing the cable. It is sandwiched between two nuts, so put wrenches on each so you don't twist the post. The internal wires on the post can be damaged fairly easily.
When you pull the starter apart, you will find bushings in the front and back. Keep them in order, as they are different thicknesses, and they need to go back the same way.
Here's a link to ShopTalk, which has a couple of good threads on the starter. The one about 1200 starters is pretty much the same as 1100's. Good luck!
page/ST
When you pull the starter apart, you will find bushings in the front and back. Keep them in order, as they are different thicknesses, and they need to go back the same way.
Here's a link to ShopTalk, which has a couple of good threads on the starter. The one about 1200 starters is pretty much the same as 1100's. Good luck!
page/ST
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
- Sidecar Bob
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 7631
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
I can't say for sure about other 'Wings but on my '83 with '79 engine I always had to remove the left crash bar so I could remove the header and then remove the gearshift pedal and the rearmost exhaust stud to get the starter motor out. I would be surprised if your '81 is much different.
BTW: I don't understand why people believe that the bike has to be on the side stand to put the starter motor back in. I've had starter motors out & back in a number of times on mine over the years, on the side stand, on the centre stand and with the sidecar attached (= bike sitting upright) and from my experience having it upright so you have more room to work more than offsets having to fiddle a bit more to get the splines on the motor's shaft into the ones in the sprocket.
BTW: I don't understand why people believe that the bike has to be on the side stand to put the starter motor back in. I've had starter motors out & back in a number of times on mine over the years, on the side stand, on the centre stand and with the sidecar attached (= bike sitting upright) and from my experience having it upright so you have more room to work more than offsets having to fiddle a bit more to get the splines on the motor's shaft into the ones in the sprocket.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
- chewy999
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:21 am
- Location: Haddenham, Cambs, UK
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
I had the same issues when starting with a hot engine. No problem when cold, but on a run, after stopping for fuel I sometimes had to sit and wait for the engine to cool. Tried brand new starters with little difference, and eventually put it down to rectifier/black wire problems. If you read the threads below, that explains what I did try with much help from the guys here, but in the end, I bought a (genuine) CBR600 rectifier, and ride with the headlight on. Got to say, still not perfect, but far better than before. Using the CBR600 rectifier does away with the black wire.
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63268
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63432
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63587
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63268
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63432
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63587
Previous Rides,
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
1980 CB250N Good to learn on
1981 CX500 good mid range tourer, went to Austria on it!
1983 GL1100C Pride and joy, sold when I bought my 1st house, big mistake
1985 GL650 Silverwing another mistake, horrible bike
1986 CBX550 Good commuter
1989 Suzuki GS750 (1976) cheap and cheerful until a dog ran out in front of me on Xmas Eve, 1991
Current bikes
2010 CB1300 back on a bike after 19 years, two divorces, children grown up etc
1980 GL1100 NOW ON THE ROAD, still use CB1300.
- Sidecar Bob
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 7631
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Oh yeah, I forgot:
1) When mine was hard to start when hot I cleaned the starter motor, and when that didn't help I installed a rebuild kitand when that didn't help I had one rebuilt by a shop and finally bought an aftermarket replacement. It turned out that the carb to plenum seals were leaking, which allowed fuel to pool in the plenum and when I shut the engine off it would run into one or more cylinders. Letting it sit for a while to cool down must have let the fuel evaporate enough that the starter could turn it fast enough to start (the oil never smelled of fuel).
2) Re headlight: The Start button has a second set of contacts that turn the headlight off while the starter motor is running so that the starter can have the battery's full output. It is pretty common for the contacts in the handlebar switch assemblies to become dirty over time so that they stop making good contact. You can often remedy this by spraying contact cleaner into the little hole in the housing below the offending switch/button and working the switch vigorously a few times. If that doesn't work you may need to disassemble the switch and clean the contacts with more contact cleaner and an old toothbrush.
Note 1: Use real contact cleaner, not WD40. WD leaves a sticky residue that will attract dirt and eventually mess up the contacts again.
Note 2: Never use sandpaper on switch contacts. Grit from it can become embedded in the copper and sither keep the contacts apart or scratch the mating contact. If contacts are pitted always use a very fine file to dress them (points files are best).
1) When mine was hard to start when hot I cleaned the starter motor, and when that didn't help I installed a rebuild kitand when that didn't help I had one rebuilt by a shop and finally bought an aftermarket replacement. It turned out that the carb to plenum seals were leaking, which allowed fuel to pool in the plenum and when I shut the engine off it would run into one or more cylinders. Letting it sit for a while to cool down must have let the fuel evaporate enough that the starter could turn it fast enough to start (the oil never smelled of fuel).
2) Re headlight: The Start button has a second set of contacts that turn the headlight off while the starter motor is running so that the starter can have the battery's full output. It is pretty common for the contacts in the handlebar switch assemblies to become dirty over time so that they stop making good contact. You can often remedy this by spraying contact cleaner into the little hole in the housing below the offending switch/button and working the switch vigorously a few times. If that doesn't work you may need to disassemble the switch and clean the contacts with more contact cleaner and an old toothbrush.
Note 1: Use real contact cleaner, not WD40. WD leaves a sticky residue that will attract dirt and eventually mess up the contacts again.
Note 2: Never use sandpaper on switch contacts. Grit from it can become embedded in the copper and sither keep the contacts apart or scratch the mating contact. If contacts are pitted always use a very fine file to dress them (points files are best).
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
-
- Titanium Member
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
- Location: Springfield, Ill.
Re: Electrical and Starter issue questions
Maybe you've tried this already, but always a good idea to try jumper cables and a known good battery when the starter is slow. A marginal battery can sometimes fail to deliver the goods after a heat soak on a hot day, but work ok when things are cooler.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
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