Very slow to return to idle

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cfairweather
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#136

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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#137

Post by Sidecar Bob »

When one of my buttons initially cracked I got some washers that fit around the bumps on them and as thick as the bumps, epoxied them on and epoxied coins on top. The second time the coin disappeared on the one that cracked a piece of the button went with it. That's why I didn't trust epoxy to hold the freeze plugs in.
And re copper caps, I feel the HDPE discs I used are closer to the original setup.
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BurnsYoFace34
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#138

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

I thought about soldering the beer bottle caps on or like a rubber cement or pvc cement would work to lol the brass plumbing caps would be real easy for me to get ahold of since im a apprentice plumber lol
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#139

Post by Sidecar Bob »

How do you solder to aluminum?
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
redglbx
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#140

Post by redglbx »

Burns take a close look at the thread attached to CFs post above,he explains the repair process pretty well. With all the 3D printers these days I’m surprised that nobody is offering replacement buttons. IMHO JB Weld is the way to install them just be very careful not to get sloppy.

I used the copper plumbing caps because there were no 3D printers back then. Keep in mind that your going to have trim those caps to limit the slide travel. Ideally you want the pins to hit the buttons a little before the slide bottoms In the caps & they should all measure the same from the cap rim to the slide with the springs removed, they should be all the same.
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#141

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

What size copper caps 1 inch caps
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#142

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I still recommend adding discs of a non brittle plastic under the caps for the shafts of the slides to bump against. If the copper is soft enough that it won't damage the ends of the shafts it will deform a bit with every hit and eventually the outer rim of the slide will hit and they can break when that happens.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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ericheath
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#143

Post by ericheath »

I wonder if pruning the top of the slide off would improve longevity of the caps. It would only take about 1/8” and the top of the slide would not hit the cap. It would lighten the slide some causing a faster rise, but could be remedied a couple of ways, adding weight or changing diameter of holes in slide. Or adding a bit of rubber to the top to make up for the weight and cushion the cap.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#144

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If you shortened the slide's shaft the outer edge of the piston would hit the inside of the cap and the piston would break away from the rest of the slide.
Carb slide hits.png
Carb slide hits.png (342.72 KiB) Viewed 267 times
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#145

Post by Whiskerfish »

I think the caps deteriorate from Age, Sun and chemical cleaning. I have see a couple fail actually watched them pop off and that was on very poor running bikes and happened during a backfire. Pretty sure it was just a result of over pressurization.
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redglbx
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#146

Post by redglbx »

Great picture Bob ! Really makes it easier to understand ! To w-fish’s point I believe he is correct in the poor running bike breaking the buttons from back firing, on my 76 it ran like shite for many years due to the mismarked timing marks on the flywheel which caused it to backfire a lot. My carb button(s) were cracked early in it’s life and I ran with a quarter epoxied on top of one for a few years before a second one cracked and the quarter on the 1st one disappeared.

After searching for replacement caps and not really finding them that’s when I went to the copper plumbing caps, I ran this setup for a lot of years w/o issue before going to the 1100 carbs. I did this after a very long discussion/debate about 1100 vs 1000 carbs on the old CWC discussion list. I heard that the 1100 carbs would improve performance and gas mileage all the way to include wheeling or burning the tire at will and included giving you whiter teeth and an improved sex life,,,,, all bs !

After a lot of machine work ( not enlarging the throttle bores, can’t be done !) all done to improve the flow through the stock bores and get the jetting right the 1100’s actually improved the performance quite a bit over the 1000’s , but there was still a lot of back firing and a rough idle ! At that point I replaced the prestolite electronic ignition with a Dyna and set it up with a degree wheel which showed the that the t2/F2 marking was 6 degrees retarded to the t1/f1 marking. Got that right and now backfires are very rare and voila I have a very smooth, responsive, wonderful running bike.

Anyway this is just to say I think W-fish’s explanation of why the buttons break is spot on and Bob’s warning about not banging the pistons off the caps is also spot-on unless you’re into broken carb pistons,, , I’m going back to sleep now, g-night 😁
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#147

Post by Sidecar Bob »

FWIW, my '77 'Wing's original carbs (in a box in the attic now) have 2 slides that the pistons broke on. AFAIK the buttons in their caps were intact when this happened so I'm not sure what caused it but the engine started to run poorly and when I opened the carbs I found them broken. I had no idea where to buy such things so I drilled some small holes and safety wired them together and made sure they slid easily; It ran much better after that, I'm sure not perfectly but it wasn't something I worried about much either.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
BurnsYoFace34
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#148

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

Ok so if I get the copper caps how much should i cut off the cap so the slides hit the cap an not bottom out?
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gltriker
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#149

Post by gltriker »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:35 am If you shortened the slide's shaft the outer edge of the piston would hit the inside of the cap and the piston would break away from the rest of the slide.

Carb slide hits.png
Bob,
I gather that you may have added the impressive details within this particular illustration. Where did you locate this illustration please?

I wish to locate a similar illustration of the carburetor's theory of operation when the engine is idling; Throttle valve closed. When the Idle Discharge Port Jet Pilot is discharging fuel, only. Bypass holes are not contributing.
Thank you
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#150

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Wow, that was 8 months ago so I had no idea where I found the original image (I only added the red and green parts). I had to do a Google Image search and the only result was the page linked below so that must be where I got it. Where he found it I have no idea
https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=171366
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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