Very slow to return to idle

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gltriker
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#91

Post by gltriker »

BurnsYoFace34 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:56 pm Ill have to double check the roll that I got an double check to make sure the fuel is still leaking cause i know recently ive sprayed starter fluid into the plenum and if I leave the petcock on or reserve. An dont shut the fuel off it gets flooded somewhat takes it longer than normal to start so besides that what else could be the high rev with no return to 1k rpm any help would greatly be appreciated or advice which ever if y'all want to know more about the situation just ask
Whoa! :shock:
Gasoline flowing unregulated into the engine, because the petcock isn't shut off when its not running is a recipe for bending connecting rods! Yes. Bending connecting rods.

read this
https://www.randakksblog.com/motorcycle ... #more-5411

Advice? Get those carburetors off the engine, now. They aren't able to repair themselves. Every part of the GL1000 fuel system utilizes rubber components of varying shapes and sizes.
The advice to obtain and utilize the Randakk kit is not just a guess.

If the carburetion isn't correctly attended to ? :

-You won't ever be successful to dynamically idle speed synchronize the 4 carburetors.
-You won't ever be successful to have the engine promptly return to a proper and consistent idle speed and stay there.

Don't put that off any longer. You are wasting your time .
We have at least one Randakk approved, professional GL1000 carburetor expert located near you in the NGW Club. robin1731

done
Last edited by gltriker on Mon May 09, 2022 12:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Old Fogey
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#92

Post by Old Fogey »

Absolutely, Cliff!!
You beat me too it; as soon as I read that last post I was like WHOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
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cfairweather
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#93

Post by cfairweather »

BurnsYoFace34- Maybe I am misunderstanding you and I hope I am, but if you have used a roll of gasket material anywhere on your carbs or plenum, you need to remove the carbs and take that stuff out. You must use special seals for the carb bowls and plenum and these only come in kits. The leaks you describe come from the float valves not sealing properly or from leaky plenum seals or in your case the gasket material you used. You need to watch a video of rebuilding these carbs so you understand how to do it right. There are some on the internet you can watch or you can order this one: https://www.randakks.com/randakks-honda ... video.html
redglbx
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#94

Post by redglbx »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:41 am What do you mean? I think I was very clear.
You were ! Just being a little sarcastic ! 😁
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#95

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Burns: I missed that you wanted to use the gasket sheet for carb gaskets. It is NOT appropriate for that.
I somehow thought you meant for engine gaskets, where 0.8mm gasket sheet is appropriate everywhere except the head gaskets. And between the crankcase halves - there should only be a thin layer of sealant between them.

Red: If you are referring to my comment that motorcycles are vehicles, they are by every definition of the word. As someone who commuted to work by motorcycle for over 30 years, winter (with sidecar) and summer I find it annoying that people so often express that they aren't vehicles (usually because they don't have 4 wheels).
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
BurnsYoFace34
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#96

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

No I havent replaced any gaskets with the gasket material that I have I was asking if I could sry for the confusion. But I did take the carbs off today actually an took them off the plenum removed the rubber gaskets. An cleaned up the surfaces somewhat. I will be ordering that randakks gaskit kit for sure just not right now but I did talk the wife into it lol so in a few weeks I'll get the proper replacements. Also are the springs that are in the slides are they supposed to be springy or just barely push back cause I can take the slides out flip them upside down an push them down an they barely spring back up
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#97

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The springs should just be able to push the slides back up and not a lot more.

BTW: When Randall himself was running Randakk's he only sold the kits that he developed and he frequently warned about the out of spec needles, jets &c that most kits come with (he didn't include them in his kits because they are rarely needed and he couldn't get ones that he knew would be in spec for any less than you can get them from any Honda dealer for).
Since he retired and sold the business the new owners have started selling Keyster kits, which include the jets &c that you don't need but being single carb kits they don't include things that you really do need when properly rebuilding the entire fuel system.
All of which leads to: Make sure you order one Randakk's Original carb kit and not the 4 of the Keyster kits.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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gltriker
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#98

Post by gltriker »

Good ! 👍
It is almost painful to read the struggles of folks who may be hesitant /resistant to doing the work so critically necessary.

Yes a multi-carbureted engine can be very fussy. You gotta beat it at it's own game, though! tumb2
We can and will help. BUT! you already know that.

Spring question.
When the vacuum pistons and 'caps' are surgically cleaned and move freely and smoothly as a pair, the weight of the vacuum piston is similar to the rebound force the thin wire compression spring can offer. .
In other words, the vacuum piston doesn't come flying out of the vacuum piston cap.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
BurnsYoFace34
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#99

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

Yea I honestly didn't know leaving the petcock on would cause damage an honestly it was left on accidently. But now i make sure its off for sure. Im just anxious to get this bike out an ride it. Ive completely taken this bike down to the frame an back restoring it. Just excited to get to ride it lol. But anywho so even with a dyna s ignition I should still check the advance on it an im hoping that putting new rubbers in the carbs an then a sync that it helps
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#100

Post by CYBORG »

It's a learning curve......... and I think you are learning :lol: :lol: :lol:
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
redglbx
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#101

Post by redglbx »

Burns, you’re indeed learning, we’ve all went through this at some point ! The Wing fuel system is relatively simple it’s just that there’s 4 of them with 3 circuits (idle, low speed/intermediate & mains) but still simple ! The main thing is that you really need to make sure things are spotlessly clean, particularly the idle & low speed circuits, you just can’t get it clean enough.

I’m just finishing a 76 ltd that the previous owner converted to 1100 carbs because he couldn’t get the original 1000 carbs to really work well, he wasn’t thrilled with the 1100’s either. Once i got to the original ltd 1000 carbs I found that at some point the #1 carb had been replaced with a 78 California emissions “lean” carb, don’t mix & match, use all the same numbered carbs !

Also as I was running it to balance the carbs after setting the valves (do that before trying to balance the carbs) it was just missing and popping, just wouldn’t smooth out. I found 2 bad spark plug caps (should be less than 5k ohms when measured ) so I replaced them and voila, no more popping & banging, just fairly smooth, still needs new plugs as bad caps tend to kill the plugs.

The moral of all this is that you gotta look at everything as everything affects everything ! One other thing I would suggest is that if your bike has been sitting for a while I would set your valve clearances to .005-.006in vs the factory .004in because as they are run after a long sleep they tend to close the clearances up not loosen & rattle as has been taught to us with cars over the years.

Think of the wing motors as 4 individual motors that you have to setup the same , if you get it right you’ll be rewarded with an incredibly smooth and responsive ride, good luck & let us know how you do !
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
BurnsYoFace34
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#102

Post by BurnsYoFace34 »

Yea I'll have to reset the valve clearance to .006 i have them set to factory now. Should i take all the jets out an soak them in something while i wait to get the gasket set?
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#103

Post by cfairweather »

Yes, soak the jets in carb cleaner and if you have an ultrasonic cleaner, use it to clean everything. You need to run a carb cleaning wire through each jet hole. Most wire kits don't include the smallest wire for the the slow jet, so get a guitar "E" string for that tiny hole. I also recommend buying a jet gauge so you can verify the jets are sized correctly. Most people trust the size of the jets, but I have found many jets are not correct and I even found one original that was way off. Make sure you polish the slides. I use Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish for this and make sure they work perfectly. You also need to do the Off-Idle mod:
https://www.randakksblog.com/how-to-cur ... flat-spot/
Last edited by cfairweather on Mon May 09, 2022 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ericheath
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#104

Post by ericheath »

The springs vary considerably from year to year. Some are short and seem not to exert much force on the slides, others are longer but about the same number of coils. My WAG is the weak ones allow the vacuum to raise the slides and pull the needle out of the main jet sooner. I have had 77 sets with each kind. The weak ones did not run well in my 1000 and weren’t efficient. If you whacked the throttle, it ran too rich for a while until rpm caught up. The same were better when I mounted a set to the 1200. This might be better for performance, but it might also be worse. It all depends on the other parts in the carbs. If you haven’t looked at Octane’s rebuild in Shoptalk, you should. He advised and posted pics of just bouncing each slide and noting whether they all stop at roughly the same height. About as good as shade-tree guys can do. Octane also shows where to focus your polishing efforts and has a good pic of the small hole at the top of each slide to make sure is clean. Inverting the rack without draining the bowls first can allow debris to drizzle up there and dirty tye slide portion as well as plug the hole.

You gots what you gots. All you can do is try and ensure all your parts are equal for each carb and the carbs are the same. There were plenty of folks who insisted the years were all the same and mixed parts in different carbs resulting in poor performance. There was/is also the practice of drilling jets larger. You can’t tell with a naked eye. Buying a set of micro drills will allow you to size them by using the butt end of the drill bits.

I mess with my carbs a lot, and that is why I won’t sell them.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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gltriker
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Re: Very slow to return to idle

#105

Post by gltriker »

BurnsYoFace34 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 7:53 am Yea I'll have to reset the valve clearance to .006 i have them set to factory now. Should i take all the jets out an soak them in something while i wait to get the gasket set?
Attach a few photos into this topic of the carburetors turned upside down with the fuel bowls removed.
Would really be interested to see the external condition of the pressed into primary and secondary main fuel jet cavities.
They are the 2 very visible brass jets, sealed with o rings, and held in place by constant fuel bowl pressure onto the springy jet retainer.
The very small o.d. , screwed-in #35 slow fuel jet is located under the rubber plug located between the primary and secondary main fuel jets. That's the main trouble maker that cfairweather has spoken about. #35 equals an approximate 13 thousandths hole. 0.013 inch. It gets obstructed and completely shuts off the idle circuit fuel delivery.
Attempting to dynamically idle synchronize all 4 carburetors is pointless with a partially obstructed slow fuel jet. Partially obstructed is not a reasonable expectation. To clean the slow fuel jet requires removing the fuel bowl. Again.

Mike Nixon has a printed publication you can purchase from his website that is very helpful when refurbishing the GL1000 carburetors.( Yes. I bought a copy several years ago. No, I don't profit.)

Also, inspect the 4 threaded holes located on the 4 corners in each carburetor body which capture the fuel bowl and gasket onto their respective carburetor bodies.
They are very easily stripped out when the bowl retaining screws are overly tightened. Wood screw repairs are highly frowned upon. ;)
Last edited by gltriker on Tue May 10, 2022 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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