GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#31

Post by CYBORG »

gltriker wrote:Can someone factually :dunno: explain how an overly restrictive oil filter would cause the undue discharge of liquid oil out of this specific engine's crankcase breather fitting and hose?
I can't figure that out eather.
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#32

Post by desertrefugee »

gltriker wrote:Can someone factually :dunno: explain how an overly restrictive oil filter would cause the undue discharge of liquid oil out of this specific engine's crankcase breather fitting and hose?
That is a darned good question, Cliff. Oil pressure isn't really related to crankcase "atmosphere". If it were, 50-60psi sure would blow out a lot of oil...
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#33

Post by JamesPal »

I will take a shot at this, I have seen this happen in a Rolls Royce 747 jet engine. When the engine is running, the operational oil level depends on the oil being pumped through the engine. If there is a restriction in flow, the oil level in the sump would increase. This might bring the oil level up into the sweep area of the crank. That would sling it around the crankcase interior and possibly up into the breather area. The RR RB211G jet engine has a bearing case around each of the main shaft bearings. Oil is fed to each bearing under pressure. Each of these bearing housings has a scavenge pump that is designed to pump oil out of the housing faster than it was pumped in. In this case the scavenge pump was restricted and oil built up into the bearing housing and blew oil past the labyrinth seal into the engine's gas passage. It actually smoked pretty bad. The GL1100 has two oil pumps, a main and scavenge oil pump. I guessing, and this is just a theory, but I think that because of the filter restriction, the main pump could not get ahead of the scavenge pump and the level built up in the crankcase.
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#34

Post by CYBORG »

JamesPal wrote:I will take a shot at this, I have seen this happen in a Rolls Royce 747 jet engine. When the engine is running, the operational oil level depends on the oil being pumped through the engine. If there is a restriction in flow, the oil level in the sump would increase. This might bring the oil level up into the sweep area of the crank. That would sling it around the crankcase interior and possibly up into the breather area. The RR RB211G jet engine has a bearing case around each of the main shaft bearings. Oil is fed to each bearing under pressure. Each of these bearing housings has a scavenge pump that is designed to pump oil out of the housing faster than it was pumped in. In this case the scavenge pump was restricted and oil built up into the bearing housing and blew oil past the labyrinth seal into the engine's gas passage. It actually smoked pretty bad. The GL1100 has two oil pumps, a main and scavenge oil pump. I guessing, and this is just a theory, but I think that because of the filter restriction, the main pump could not get ahead of the scavenge pump and the level built up in the crankcase.
That is an interesting idea. And I agree that the balance between the two pumps keeps the proper amount in the bearings etc. But if the main pump but if the main pump is not moving oil fast enough from the sump , and the scavenge pump is moving it normally, what happens to the lubrication of the bearing? . as a side note, if you start an engine with the oil level normal, it will spit oil out of the fill hole, if the cap is not on. The pistons going up and down create the pressure in the sump. If the hose from the vent hole is not run over the level created by the piston movement it will contain oil. To me this sounds like an oil level, or vent hose routing problem, more so then a filter problem. Perhaps the oil level is being filled with the bike on the side stand, or an angle, and to the top line. Something is not right, but I'm not convinced it was a filter issue
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#35

Post by JamesPal »

CYBORG wrote: That is an interesting idea. And I agree that the balance between the two pumps keeps the proper amount in the bearings etc. But if the main pump but if the main pump is not moving oil fast enough from the sump , and the scavenge pump is moving it normally, what happens to the lubrication of the bearing? . as a side note, if you start an engine with the oil level normal, it will spit oil out of the fill hole, if the cap is not on. The pistons going up and down create the pressure in the sump. If the hose from the vent hole is not run over the level created by the piston movement it will contain oil. To me this sounds like an oil level, or vent hose routing problem, more so then a filter problem. Perhaps the oil level is being filled with the bike on the side stand, or an angle, and to the top line. Something is not right, but I'm not convinced it was a filter issue
You made me go look at the FSM. Unfortunately there is no schematic of the lubrication system. However page 1-4 has a drawing of the emission system showing the crankcase breather down one side of the crankcase. I have a partially disassembled 1100 engine in the garage. The heads, front and rear covers are off. It looks like the scavenge pump in this engine is just to pump oil out of the back or clutch area of the engine case.
I think when the engine is running and the lubrication system is functioning normally, oil is pumped through the galleys to the main and cam bearings. There is a certain amount that collects around in the engine such as (I'm guessing here) in the top ends, clutch, transmission ect. When the engine is stopped the oil drains by gravity to the sump. To keep oil flowing in the event of the oil filter becoming clogged, there is an oil pressure bypass. We will never know if the bypass licked in, but I would assume the oil level was higher than it should have been. I think the engine is OK.
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#36

Post by CYBORG »

JamesPal wrote:
CYBORG wrote: That is an interesting idea. And I agree that the balance between the two pumps keeps the proper amount in the bearings etc. But if the main pump but if the main pump is not moving oil fast enough from the sump , and the scavenge pump is moving it normally, what happens to the lubrication of the bearing? . as a side note, if you start an engine with the oil level normal, it will spit oil out of the fill hole, if the cap is not on. The pistons going up and down create the pressure in the sump. If the hose from the vent hole is not run over the level created by the piston movement it will contain oil. To me this sounds like an oil level, or vent hose routing problem, more so then a filter problem. Perhaps the oil level is being filled with the bike on the side stand, or an angle, and to the top line. Something is not right, but I'm not convinced it was a filter issue
You made me go look at the FSM. Unfortunately there is no schematic of the lubrication system. However page 1-4 has a drawing of the emission system showing the crankcase breather down one side of the crankcase. I have a partially disassembled 1100 engine in the garage. The heads, front and rear covers are off. It looks like the scavenge pump in this engine is just to pump oil out of the back or clutch area of the engine case.
I think when the engine is running and the lubrication system is functioning normally, oil is pumped through the galleys to the main and cam bearings. There is a certain amount that collects around in the engine such as (I'm guessing here) in the top ends, clutch, transmission ect. When the engine is stopped the oil drains by gravity to the sump. To keep oil flowing in the event of the oil filter becoming clogged, there is an oil pressure bypass. We will never know if the bypass licked in, but I would assume the oil level was higher than it should have been. I think the engine is OK.
I agree. The scavenge pump is designed to clear the clutch area of the engine. I was only trying to simplify my answer as much as I could. I agree, the oil is overfiulled, …. or way to thin
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#37

Post by Sidecar Bob »

CYBORG wrote:The pistons going up and down create the pressure in the sump.
Umm... Am I reading this wrong or are you referring to the volume of air inside the crankcase changing as the pistons move when you say "pressure in the sump"?
One pair of pistons are moving toward TDC at the same time as the other pair are moving toward BDC so the volume of air inside the crankcase stays the same; The only pressure in the crankcase comes from blowby (there is always some blowby because of the ring gaps).
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#38

Post by CYBORG »

Sidecar Bob wrote:
CYBORG wrote:The pistons going up and down create the pressure in the sump.
Umm... Am I reading this wrong or are you referring to the volume of air inside the crankcase changing as the pistons move when you say "pressure in the sump"?
One pair of pistons are moving toward TDC at the same time as the other pair are moving toward BDC so the volume of air inside the crankcase stays the same; The only pressure in the crankcase comes from blowby (there is always some blowby because of the ring gaps).
Ya. I know that. I sorta miss spoke. I was referring to the blow by that is created as the pistons go up. Suggesting that a compression test might, as well as a leak down test, shed some light on the problem
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Re: GL1100 crankcase breather hose constantly puking oil

#39

Post by Whiskerfish »

That is what the issue was with my 78 engine. At idle it was pretty much OK but if I put it up on center and in a higher gear loaded the engine some it felt like a air compressor was blowing air out of the case. But that engine had been abused so it was understandable that is developed that way.
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