Motor swap upgrade
Moderators: CYBORG, Oldewing, robin1731, Forum Moderators
-
- Chrome Member
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:18 pm
Motor swap upgrade
Will any of the later models work in a 78 gl 1000 frame?
Think my motor would be better served to house marine life than be a running motor.
Do any of the 1100 or 1200s bolt in?
Think my motor would be better served to house marine life than be a running motor.
Do any of the 1100 or 1200s bolt in?
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 9580
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Winnipeg, Manituba
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Both bolt into the frame, but 1100 and 84 1200 had ignition in the back which requires altering a cross tube in the back. 85-87 will bolt in usually no mods but sometimes they hit the frame near the statue. 84 1200 had a few one only items to it. Gearing was similar to the 83. Starter was different but could interchange.
To use your 78 final drive with a 1200 you’ll need to swap the output shaft from a 75-83 output which have the groove for the circlip which keeps the shaft on. Final drive ratio is geared lower by quite a bit on the 1000 models. It will be snappy with either one. 1200 gets rid of valve adjustments as they are hydraulic.
Depending on which direction you go, ignition will need modifying.
To use your 78 final drive with a 1200 you’ll need to swap the output shaft from a 75-83 output which have the groove for the circlip which keeps the shaft on. Final drive ratio is geared lower by quite a bit on the 1000 models. It will be snappy with either one. 1200 gets rid of valve adjustments as they are hydraulic.
Depending on which direction you go, ignition will need modifying.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
- Pony Ruiz
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:17 pm
- Location: Seatown - WA
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Good info there.
1978GL1000 naked - kinda sadly gone. no bike at the moment.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." Albert A. Bartlett.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." Albert A. Bartlett.
-
- Chrome Member
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:18 pm
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Nice breakdown! Thank you.
Will a 78 tank and bags fit on an 84?
Will a 78 tank and bags fit on an 84?
- wingrider
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3724
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm
- Location: Maple Lake, MN USA
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Do you have access to an 84? Anything can be made to fit, but you can’t pop 78 tins on an 84 without being very custom.
I will add one thing to Eric’s info, if someone was to take an 87 engine and put it in a 1000 frame, you have to have the 1200 output shaft machined to accept the snap ring, as mother Honda changed this part, and previous models do not fit.
There are also two ways to get an 84 engine (or 1100) into a 1000. One way is like Eric said, where you modify the cross tube on the frame to clear the ignition parts. The other way is to take the heads from your 78, and put them on the newer engine. You can then take off the rear ignition pieces, and put a cover over it. Now your ignition would be run from the 78’s cam.
I will add one thing to Eric’s info, if someone was to take an 87 engine and put it in a 1000 frame, you have to have the 1200 output shaft machined to accept the snap ring, as mother Honda changed this part, and previous models do not fit.
There are also two ways to get an 84 engine (or 1100) into a 1000. One way is like Eric said, where you modify the cross tube on the frame to clear the ignition parts. The other way is to take the heads from your 78, and put them on the newer engine. You can then take off the rear ignition pieces, and put a cover over it. Now your ignition would be run from the 78’s cam.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
-
- Chrome Member
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:18 pm
Re: Motor swap upgrade
There are a few 84s available locally but don’t see any 1000s.
What are we talking about as far as mods to the cross member? Like a small chunk is cut away or we reconstruct the whole thing?
The running gear looks complete on the 84s so I would have access to all of that.
LOVE the look of the 78s and I have the full dress set and would like to run most of it. Unfortunately my motor is trash at this point.
What are we talking about as far as mods to the cross member? Like a small chunk is cut away or we reconstruct the whole thing?
The running gear looks complete on the 84s so I would have access to all of that.
LOVE the look of the 78s and I have the full dress set and would like to run most of it. Unfortunately my motor is trash at this point.
- wingrider
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3724
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm
- Location: Maple Lake, MN USA
Re: Motor swap upgrade
If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.
My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.
1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.
1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
- Track T 2411
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 8482
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 9:37 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Track+T+2411/
- Location: Prairie du Sac Wisconsin
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Just a reminder that swapping early heads onto the 1200 isn't just a bolt on and go. Valve clearance is a potential issue and requires a bit of piston top work...wingrider wrote:If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.
My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.
1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow
"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown
Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!
Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!
In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
- wingrider
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3724
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm
- Location: Maple Lake, MN USA
Re: Motor swap upgrade
Yes it does, figured if we went that route, we’d fill in pertinent info on the swap. Another option is to find an older C5 for sale, and tap the cam on the 1200 engine. That certainly takes away any guess work.Track T 2411 wrote:Just a reminder that swapping early heads onto the 1200 isn't just a bolt on and go. Valve clearance is a potential issue and requires a bit of piston top work...wingrider wrote:If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.
My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.
1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 9580
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Winnipeg, Manituba
Re: Motor swap upgrade
I have seen pics where 1109’s or 84 1200’s have been installed. They only took about half of the crossmember out. Then they welded plates in the fill the hole. Think of cutting a cylinder in half along the height of the cylinder. I’ve seen others who cut the piece out and welded in a pre-bent piece to allow clearance. I’m not sure of clearance to the tank behind it.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
-
- Silver Member
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:07 am
Re: Motor swap upgrade
I would use an 85-87 engine. The frame MAY contact the alternator cover on the left side, but it may not, too. Depends on whether you get an engine with the bigger stator and cover. Less heating/hammering/cutting/welding if necessary, and it's out where you can reach it.
- Sidecar Bob
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 7631
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Re: Motor swap upgrade
And then there's the issue of gearing. I don't know about the 1200 but if you combine an 1100 final drive and a 1000 engine/transmission the overall gearing will be low enough that your fuel consumption will be affected and you will always be reaching for a higher gear.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
- 78Wingman
- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:41 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Motor swap upgrade
I realize I'm a little late to chime in, but I thought I would share my story of this very same swap. I bought my '78 with an '83 1100 engine already installed, but not running as all of the electrical work hadn't been done. After getting it home I realized what I was up against after I started disassembling the bike...
Good luck with whichever way you decide to go. I am happy to share what I have learned if you need further info.
I placed a stick in the gap to see what my clearance was...
This picture shows where the swing arm contacted the pulse generator cover so the PO removed half the cover and used duct tape to finish the job. In the end I had to have a curved piece of steel welded into the frame (I couldn't find a good picture) and grind the swing arm down a little to clear the pulse generator cover.
It sounds like there are easier ways to do this, but I played the hand I was dealt.Good luck with whichever way you decide to go. I am happy to share what I have learned if you need further info.
‘78/‘83 GL1000/1100 - moved on to a new life
1999 Valkyrie IS
1999 Valkyrie IS
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 14 Replies
- 786 Views
-
Last post by NotSoLilCrippseys
-
- 5 Replies
- 359 Views
-
Last post by drumgod
-
- 1 Replies
- 216 Views
-
Last post by Whiskerfish
-
- 0 Replies
- 439 Views
-
Last post by 70sbudget