Motor swap upgrade

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70sbudget
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Motor swap upgrade

#1

Post by 70sbudget »

Will any of the later models work in a 78 gl 1000 frame?

Think my motor would be better served to house marine life than be a running motor.

Do any of the 1100 or 1200s bolt in?
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ericheath
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#2

Post by ericheath »

Both bolt into the frame, but 1100 and 84 1200 had ignition in the back which requires altering a cross tube in the back. 85-87 will bolt in usually no mods but sometimes they hit the frame near the statue. 84 1200 had a few one only items to it. Gearing was similar to the 83. Starter was different but could interchange.

To use your 78 final drive with a 1200 you’ll need to swap the output shaft from a 75-83 output which have the groove for the circlip which keeps the shaft on. Final drive ratio is geared lower by quite a bit on the 1000 models. It will be snappy with either one. 1200 gets rid of valve adjustments as they are hydraulic.

Depending on which direction you go, ignition will need modifying.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Pony Ruiz
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#3

Post by Pony Ruiz »

Good info there. action1
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70sbudget
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#4

Post by 70sbudget »

Nice breakdown! Thank you.

Will a 78 tank and bags fit on an 84?
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wingrider
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#5

Post by wingrider »

Do you have access to an 84? Anything can be made to fit, but you can’t pop 78 tins on an 84 without being very custom.

I will add one thing to Eric’s info, if someone was to take an 87 engine and put it in a 1000 frame, you have to have the 1200 output shaft machined to accept the snap ring, as mother Honda changed this part, and previous models do not fit.

There are also two ways to get an 84 engine (or 1100) into a 1000. One way is like Eric said, where you modify the cross tube on the frame to clear the ignition parts. The other way is to take the heads from your 78, and put them on the newer engine. You can then take off the rear ignition pieces, and put a cover over it. Now your ignition would be run from the 78’s cam.
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70sbudget
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#6

Post by 70sbudget »

There are a few 84s available locally but don’t see any 1000s.

What are we talking about as far as mods to the cross member? Like a small chunk is cut away or we reconstruct the whole thing?

The running gear looks complete on the 84s so I would have access to all of that.

LOVE the look of the 78s and I have the full dress set and would like to run most of it. Unfortunately my motor is trash at this point.
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#7

Post by wingrider »

If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.

My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.

1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
2002 1800 Wing
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#8

Post by Track T 2411 »

wingrider wrote:If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.

My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.

1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
Just a reminder that swapping early heads onto the 1200 isn't just a bolt on and go. Valve clearance is a potential issue and requires a bit of piston top work...
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wingrider
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#9

Post by wingrider »

Track T 2411 wrote:
wingrider wrote:If you are going the route of moving the cross member, I believe there have been a few folks that simply lowered it in the frame.

My memory isn’t great on that, but it seems if you moved it up, you would hit the tank.

1000 heads aren’t horribly expensive, and then it solves your problem.
Just a reminder that swapping early heads onto the 1200 isn't just a bolt on and go. Valve clearance is a potential issue and requires a bit of piston top work...
Yes it does, figured if we went that route, we’d fill in pertinent info on the swap. Another option is to find an older C5 for sale, and tap the cam on the 1200 engine. That certainly takes away any guess work.
2002 1800 Wing
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ericheath
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#10

Post by ericheath »

I have seen pics where 1109’s or 84 1200’s have been installed. They only took about half of the crossmember out. Then they welded plates in the fill the hole. Think of cutting a cylinder in half along the height of the cylinder. I’ve seen others who cut the piece out and welded in a pre-bent piece to allow clearance. I’m not sure of clearance to the tank behind it.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#11

Post by Shadowjack »

I would use an 85-87 engine. The frame MAY contact the alternator cover on the left side, but it may not, too. Depends on whether you get an engine with the bigger stator and cover. Less heating/hammering/cutting/welding if necessary, and it's out where you can reach it.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#12

Post by Sidecar Bob »

And then there's the issue of gearing. I don't know about the 1200 but if you combine an 1100 final drive and a 1000 engine/transmission the overall gearing will be low enough that your fuel consumption will be affected and you will always be reaching for a higher gear.
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78Wingman
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Re: Motor swap upgrade

#13

Post by 78Wingman »

I realize I'm a little late to chime in, but I thought I would share my story of this very same swap. I bought my '78 with an '83 1100 engine already installed, but not running as all of the electrical work hadn't been done. After getting it home I realized what I was up against after I started disassembling the bike...
Bike 2.JPG
Bike 2.JPG (104.82 KiB) Viewed 140 times
I placed a stick in the gap to see what my clearance was...
Bike 4.jpg
Bike 4.jpg (105.83 KiB) Viewed 140 times
This picture shows where the swing arm contacted the pulse generator cover so the PO removed half the cover and used duct tape to finish the job. In the end I had to have a curved piece of steel welded into the frame (I couldn't find a good picture) and grind the swing arm down a little to clear the pulse generator cover.
Bike 3.JPG
Bike 3.JPG (131.62 KiB) Viewed 140 times
It sounds like there are easier ways to do this, but I played the hand I was dealt.

Good luck with whichever way you decide to go. I am happy to share what I have learned if you need further info.
‘78/‘83 GL1000/1100 - moved on to a new life
1999 Valkyrie IS
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