Clutch Renewal

Discuss everything about Honda GoldWing. Feel free to ask any question related to GoldWing.

Moderators: CYBORG, Oldewing, robin1731, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Clutch Renewal

#1

Post by kjmarti2 »

Alright guys, this is probably a dumb question with a simple solution, but I just can't think of another way to approach this at the moment.

I'm following Octane's clutch renewal instructions and am at the point where I need to remove the nut. I removed the lifter plate (without breaking it!) and bent back all the little washer tabs. I even bought the proper tool to loosen the nut the right way, but no matter if I'm in gear or in neutral, the blasted assembly rotates with the nut and prevents me from loosening it.

Nothing I've tried has stopped the outer assembly from rotating enough to loosen the nut, and I can't hold it AND provide enough force to loosen the nut at the same time. I'm afraid to use a properly sized clamp for fear of breaking something. I didn't see any mention of this issue in Octane's write-up or in any of the manuals, so I'm thinking I'm missing something obvious. Any ideas on what that is?
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
User avatar
Chainman
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Oak Island NC USA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#2

Post by Chainman »

I made a clutch holding tool from 3\4" plywood and a piece of hardwood. Then used the lifter plate bolts to attach it. Here's a pic:
IMG_20200201_171501.jpg
IMG_20200201_171501.jpg (133.02 KiB) Viewed 787 times
I had to run a step drill bit in the backside of the tool, to allow the tool to sit a little deeper, but I can't remember why. I think to allow the bolts to grab better.
1975 GL1000
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Clutch Renewal

#3

Post by Sidecar Bob »

If you remove the nut before you start taking anything else apart you can put it in gear and use the rear brake to stop the engine from turning but once you have taken the pressure off of the springs you will need a tool similar to the one above or the Honda special tool.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#4

Post by kjmarti2 »

I managed to get everything out using a strategically placed screwdriver to provide the counter-torque, but that same trick won't work when putting everything back in place because the frame geometry is different on the left side. I ordered a clutch holder tool from the UK to do the job. Now it's back to waiting. I hate waiting on parts and tools..
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
User avatar
Fred Camper
Vice President
Vice President
Posts: 6890
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:38 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/Jeff+Bozeman/
Location: Metro Detroit
Contact:

Re: Clutch Renewal

#5

Post by Fred Camper »

Sure seems that Sidecar Bob's suggestion will help you reassemble instead of waiting for a tool.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#6

Post by kjmarti2 »

Fred Camper wrote:Sure seems that Sidecar Bob's suggestion will help you reassemble instead of waiting for a tool.
I guess I don't really understand how to use his advice at this point because I already have everything apart and the new clutch stack in place. I'm trying to re-tighten the nut, not loosen it. The only way to get pressure back on the springs for his suggestion to work is to put the lifter plate back in place but that then blocks the nut I am trying to tighten, does it not?

I was thinking about what he said though and I suppose I could have someone hold a wrench on the forward nut under the timing belt covers to stop the engine from turning. The direction of rotation should be correct to tighten that nut as oppose to loosening it in the case of the stator nut.
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Clutch Renewal

#7

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Sometimes get confused about the details of how I did things if it was more than a year or 2 ago and I didn't take pics of it so I looked at some pics of GL1000 clutches online and I think I remember what I did.
I think I had to remove the pressure plate and then put every 2nd spring in with the bolt and a large washer and tighten them up so that they would apply pressure to the clutch so it would engage while I did up the nut.
IIRC, with the engine in the bike, the sidecar attached (= both wheels on the ground) and the transmission in 5th gear I believe there was enough resistance to movement that i needed neither assistance or a special tool to hold the engine while I tightened the nut to spec.

When I had the 1100 engine apart before installing it I re-assembled the clutch while the engine was on the bench. Since I didn't have the drivetrain to work against I put a socket on a breaker bar on the bolt on the other end of the crankshaft and let the end of it sit on the bench while I used the torque wrench on the clutch nut.

BTW: I hope you read this before you started putting the clutch together viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16877
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#8

Post by kjmarti2 »

Thanks Sidecar Bob, I could see that working pretty well. I can't take quite the same approach right now because while the engine is in the frame, I took the rear wheel off so that I could get a better view of things and have more clearance to work with. The good news is that I haven't put the radiator back in yet so it's still really easy to rig something up at the front end to hold that bolt under the timing belt covers. I'll try putting pressure on the clutch as you suggest too, hopefully that will make things a bit easier.

As for the B-plate, I unfortunately didn't read that before I put everything back together and I reused it. I'd need to get some extra steel plates to implement that. Is this something you've implemented? I read further down that thread where Old Fogey had to burn the clutch a bit to get it working like he wanted it. Makes me a bit nervous to try it.

I also noticed that there is a help article about this very topic, pretty much right under the renewal instructions I was going by :IDTS: :oops:
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Clutch Renewal

#9

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I had a damper plate come apart on me about 16 or 17 years ago. When it happened the little leaf springs moved around making it feel like my clutch cable was alternately several turns too loose and several turns too tight. I first noticed this about 5Km from home and by the time I got home the friction material on the plates on either side of the damper was almost completely missing.
Fortunately I had a parts engine that I was able to take replacement plates (including the damper) from and I was able to drive the bike to work again in the morning.

Some years later, after I had added the sidecar I started to have problems with the clutch, this time engaging suddenly and squealing loudly. Having recently read that thread, I was already thinking of getting rid of the damper plate so that was the first thing I tried; It seemed to help at first but it was the same again shortly. I tried replacing the cable and replacing the friction plates and while it seemed to engage more normally it still squealed. When I replaced the whole engine (see New Engine link in my signature) (with the damper plate "binned") I expected it to go away but, amazingly enough, it still squealed.
At this point I had replaced almost everything involved with the clutch and couldn't figure out why it was noisy. One day last summer I noticed that the clutch lever was rattling so I replaced it with the one from the parts bike. I can still make noise with the clutch if I try but I no longer have to use it gingerly when pulling away...
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#10

Post by kjmarti2 »

I got the nut tightened using the ole "Screw and Washer" trick that Sidecar Bob mentioned, and closed the "fingers" on that flower washer (it took a little beating), but unfortunately had to pull the engine to remove all the gasket material. I really should have just pulled it to begin with.

Now however, when I put the lifter plate and the outer cover back on I can't get the clutch to engage when pulling on the lifter (shaft won't move freely still). I don't think it's the plates, but I don't see any damage with the triple ball bearing and lifter either. I should add that it doesn't matter how much I adjust the slack screw either, same result. We've got a mystery on our hands Scooby Doo..
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 7633
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

Re: Clutch Renewal

#11

Post by Sidecar Bob »

The clutch should be engaged as soon as you do up the screws that hold the lifter on. Once the cover is on you should be able to disengage it by turning the lever that the cable pulls but you won't be able to do it by hand unless you are built like Charles Atlas. A big set of pliers may help if you grab the lever just right.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
kjmarti2
Titanium Member
Titanium Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:14 pm
Location: Dallas, GA

Re: Clutch Renewal

#12

Post by kjmarti2 »

Sidecar Bob wrote:The clutch should be engaged as soon as you do up the screws that hold the lifter on. Once the cover is on you should be able to disengage it by turning the lever that the cable pulls but you won't be able to do it by hand unless you are built like Charles Atlas. A big set of pliers may help if you grab the lever just right.
Taking the cover off and disconnecting the spring from the lifter, there is a major resistance at a little over half travel that I can't fully explain. With a little effort and manipulating the motion front to back, I can get the lifter to fully extend. No resistance felt with the lifter off and just spinning the ball bearings. I think I've narrowed it down to either the rubber seal or the backside of the lifter arm. My money is on the seal, but putting some grease on it didn't really help either. No obvious damage is present. I'll be ordering a new seal just in case, but I can't really make sense of it.
Yellow 1976 GL1000 - "The Phoenix"
1976 GL1000 LTD
2002 CB900F 919
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GoldWing Tech Discussions”