'81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

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toomanybikes
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'81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#1

Post by toomanybikes »

As part of removing old gasket material while replacing my water pump on my GL1100 (separate thread) I'd like to remove the shifting mechanism to provide better access to gasket surfaces for cleaning.

This may be a dumb question but ... It feels like the shift mechanism should just pull out easily, is that correct? I don't want to remove it and then learn re-assembly is more complicated.

Also, any hints on removing stubborn placement dowels would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Pic for reference
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Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#2

Post by robin1731 »

If you pull up a parts fische of the mechanism you will see the answer to that is no, it does not just pull out.
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/19 ... 8#sch32217
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#3

Post by toomanybikes »

robin1731 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:45 am If you pull up a parts fische of the mechanism you will see the answer to that is no, it does not just pull out.
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/19 ... 8#sch32217
Thanks. I did look at the parts fiche before posting, but the image wasn't obvious since I hadn't taken it apart before.

On mine, the shift mechanism slides forward freely at least 1/4". I didn't want to go further and have something in the bowels get disconnected.
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#4

Post by Old Fogey »

Just one of the poorer parts of the design, the cases have to be split to remove it. The same applies if you ever need to change the gearchange lever shaft, say because the spines are damaged. Honda did some strange things with the four cylinder engines. The strangest, possibly, being putting a crankcase oil strainer in the crankcase without any access to it other than splitting the engine, as on the GL1200
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#5

Post by Old Fogey »

toomanybikes wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:18 am
robin1731 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:45 am If you pull up a parts fische of the mechanism you will see the answer to that is no, it does not just pull out.
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/19 ... 8#sch32217
Thanks. I did look at the parts fiche before posting, but the image wasn't obvious since I hadn't taken it apart before.

On mine, the shift mechanism slides forward freely at least 1/4". I didn't want to go further and have something in the bowels get disconnected.
It won't shift forward once the transmission cover is on. Nothing can get disconnected, don't worry.
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#6

Post by flyin900 »

This is what I use in hard to reach areas and it works amazing. I got it from a store much like your Harbour Freight that is located here in Canada. It is called an oil pan separator kit that I use with my cordless drill. I use the gel style paint remover that I paint onto the areas (there is also a proper gasket remover chemical, I think from Permatex) that need gasket material removed with a small stiff brush. Let is sit for 10 mins and work the abrasive pads on the old gasket. It may take a couple of tries, yet it always works well.

No need to remove the dowels, as they are normally stuck in the hole. I have found using a drill bit shank that fits into the dowel reasonably well and vise grips on the dowel will allow you to work them back and forth without totally crushing the dowel. Down side to this method is is usually damages the dowel with the vise grip teeth, so a new dowel is needed.




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Last edited by flyin900 on Sun May 09, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#7

Post by toomanybikes »

Old Fogey wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:24 am Just one of the poorer parts of the design, the cases have to be split to remove it. The same applies if you ever need to change the gearchange lever shaft, say because the spines are damaged. Honda did some strange things with the four cylinder engines. The strangest, possibly, being putting a crankcase oil strainer in the crankcase without any access to it other than splitting the engine, as on the GL1200
Good to know. I do have to pull off the shift lever since it's a little bent. Usable, but as long as i have the bike on the stand I might as well straighten the lever.

I'll be careful with the splines.
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#8

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Dowel pins are cheap and readily available. Whenever I'm planning to open an engine I order enough to combine with what I have on hand (left over last time) to replace them all and replace just the ones that need it.

I use a number of methods to remove them:
The easiest way (when it works) is to find a punch or other piece of steel that is a snug fit inside, fill the inside of the pin with grease and tap the punch into the hole so the grease will push the pin out from behind.
If that won't work I find a drill bit or something else hard that is a good fit inside the pin, slide it in and grip the pin and with vise grips. The bit will keep the pin from deforming too badly while you turn it back & forth with the vise grips.
If all else fails I have been known to crush some of the larger ones enough to get them to release.

I always apply anti-seize on dowel pins (new or re-used) to help prevent them from sticking the next time. In some places on my winter bike I also add a bit of silicone sealant outside of the o-ring to prevent salty water from finding its way in.

Re cleaning the mating surfaces, the Honda Common Service Manual recommends scraping the old gasket off with a gasket scraper or similar (I usually use an Olfa knife followed by a single edged razor blade) and then going over it with a flat sharpening stone. Dip the stone in a container of fresh water and rub it over the surface using a circular motion, periodically stopping to wipe the dirty water off of the area you are working on and dip the stone in the water to clean it off. When you are done the surface will be as clean & smooth as you will ever see.
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Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#9

Post by toomanybikes »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:46 pm
Re cleaning the mating surfaces, the Honda Common Service Manual recommends scraping the old gasket off with a gasket scraper or similar (I usually use an Olfa knife followed by a single edged razor blade) and then going over it with a flat sharpening stone. Dip the stone in a container of fresh water and rub it over the surface using a circular motion, periodically stopping to wipe the dirty water off of the area you are working on and dip the stone in the water to clean it off. When you are done the surface will be as clean & smooth as you will ever see.
Cleaning petrified gaskets is my absolute least favorite thing about resurrecting old bikes. I have my own various methods and tools. The two most effective are a good old propane torch to burn the material and a brass wire wheel to scrape without damaging the aluminum. Scotch brite pads work well when the part is away from the engine, but not good for surfaces where the residue might fall into the engine.
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#10

Post by toomanybikes »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:46 pm
Re cleaning the mating surfaces, the Honda Common Service Manual recommends scraping the old gasket off with a gasket scraper or similar (I usually use an Olfa knife followed by a single edged razor blade) and then going over it with a flat sharpening stone. Dip the stone in a container of fresh water and rub it over the surface using a circular motion, periodically stopping to wipe the dirty water off of the area you are working on and dip the stone in the water to clean it off. When you are done the surface will be as clean & smooth as you will ever see.
Doh! I was a little clumsy with the vice grips and damaged the surface, should have just left the dowel in place. I've cleaned it up some with a brass wire wheel and scotchbrite pads, but will now try the sharpening stone method to get it smooth again. I always assume the surface closest to the oil or coolant is more important than the surface behind a bolt hole.

Not surprisingly, the surface on the main engine case is being the most difficult to clean. I'll need to find a small right angle power driver
PXL_20210519_101806762.jpg
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Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#11

Post by Whiskerfish »

A piece of flat glass supported on a hard surface and a full sheet of 600 grit sand paper. You want to make darn sure those surfaces stay perfectly flat. I have a piece of thick glass that came from a old coffee table just for this job.
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#12

Post by Sidecar Bob »

You might be better off to fill the marks with epoxy first, then sand it down to match the aluminum. Use spray adhesive to attach the sandpaper to the glass because 2 sided tape will cause ridges in the sandpaper.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

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Post by toomanybikes »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:16 am You might be better off to fill the marks with epoxy first, then sand it down to match the aluminum. Use spray adhesive to attach the sandpaper to the glass because 2 sided tape will cause ridges in the sandpaper.
Yeah, i fear the process of removing petrified gasket may have resulted in a surface that's not perfectly planar.

Maybe I should use two gaskets ;)
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#14

Post by robin1731 »

toomanybikes wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:39 am snip.............
Maybe I should use two gaskets ;)
Never. shakehands lolol
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1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
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Re: '81 GL1100 - removing shift mechanism and placement dowels

#15

Post by toomanybikes »

robin1731 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:00 pm
toomanybikes wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:39 am snip.............
Maybe I should use two gaskets ;)
Never. shakehands lolol
how do you feel about a little RTV, gasket maker, or similar in the afflicted areas? I feel more confident in my ability in that option over the epoxy method mentioned by SidecarBob (no offense)
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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