'84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

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Gator417
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'84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#1

Post by Gator417 »

A few years back I smoked the stock engine in Nora and I'm finally getting to the point of trying to get her back on the road.
Picked up an '84 for the engine, driveline, forks, controls, gauges and bits and pieces. I've read through 10 or 15 threads on this swap but still have a few questions.
I don't want to cut the frame to make room for the ignition so looking at other options. Also not sure if I want to cut on the pistons to use the '77 heads.
If I just used the '77 cams, can I use the Dyna/Neon ignition and would I have to cut the pistons?
If that's not viable, could an '85-'87 front mounted ignition be fitted to the '84 crank?
Most people are saying to swap the output shaft from the '77 so the clip will keep it in place. Is there a problem with using the '84 swingarm in the '77 frame?
Should I stick with the '77 harness and add to it where needed or start with the '84 and cut out what I don't need?
I've learned a ton by reading those other threads and will continue to do so. Thank you in advance for all your help
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Shadowjack
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#2

Post by Shadowjack »

Eric Heath is your man, but having swapped a 1200 into a 75 frame, using an 85 engine (I had an 84 but didn't want to cut the frame), I can tell you nothing fits without a struggle. A LOT of work.
There was interference between the stator cover and the left frame rail, as well as the left lower motor mount. A torch, a hammer, and a grinder were required.
I used the 1200 carbs and ignition, rather than fool with the heads and cams. A pain to find a place to put the ignition box. Had to make brackets for the coils. Had to mostly rewire the engine harness from the 1200 to match the 1000, plus adapt the ignition circuit, the fuel pump, and relay.
The carbs just barely fit in the frame, but the airbox has to be cut. The throttle cables are tight, tight, tight around the airbox. The deflector behind the fan had to be reworked and welded. The choke cable was fed through a new hole in the deflector because there's no room.
You can use 1200 exhaust manifolds, but you'll have to build muffler adapters.
I used a swingarm from an 1100, but that was the wrong path--the driveshaft needed to be modified to fit the 1100 rear section to the 1000 front yoke, and I needed longer shocks. I don't believe the 1200 swingarm will fit at all, but I never tried it.
If I was to try it again, I'd just start with an 1100 frame. I still have the 84 engine...
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#3

Post by wingrider »

If you have the heads off of the 77, you can do what I did and lop off the electronics on the 84, and put the 1000 heads(and ignition) on the 84 block. You do need to fly cut the Pistons. Use the 1000 swing arm unless you want to modify the heck out of it. Pull the output shaft from your 77 and put it in the 84.

I may have gotten lucky, but my 84 fit in my 77 frame with room to spare. I also made my own harness, so can’t help you there.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
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ericheath
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#4

Post by ericheath »

You cannot use the 77 cams in 1200 heads. They will coil bind the valve springs and there are other issues, namely completely different angles of lift. Contrary to conjecture about lift, the 1200 has almost as much, if not more lift that the seemingly larger 75-77 cams due to different rocker arm ratios and cam location in the head and the hydraulic actuators are at different heights.

Really the only advantage to the 1000/1100 heads swaps is a 2mm larger intake valve and solid rockers to allow a bit higher rpm.

With an 84, you’re going to have to cut the frame or find a new ignition source. 1000 heads is probably the easiest way, but you have to fly-cut the pistons. It wouldn’t be pretty but I’ll bet you could hammer or crush the rear crossmember enough to make it fit. It wouldn’t be visible. The ones I’ve seen who modified it took half of the tube diameter out then welded in plate.

Wingrider has a good write up on removing the rear ignition. I can’t say for sure on whether you could mount the 85-87 ignition. I don’t think the block is tapped for the front crank sensors.

Joedrum tried not swapping the output shaft. It bolts up nicely but in the right situation it will come off.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
Gator417
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#5

Post by Gator417 »

Thanks for the responses thus far.
Eric, I read your info on the 1000 cam in the 1200 head after I posted these queries. Nice write-up.
If I can't find another way to do the ignition I guess I'l have a go at fly-cutting those 1200 pistons. I guess I can practice on the 1000 first if nothing else.
I thought I could fit in a bigger tire if I used the '84 swingarm but I'm not sure that's true now or maybe so but not worth the effort.
Finally, does the 1200 induction will work on the 1000 heads, or should I use the 1000 setup?
Thanks again,
Gator
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robin1731
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#6

Post by robin1731 »

Gator417 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:43 am snip................
Finally, does the 1200 induction will work on the 1000 heads, or should I use the 1000 setup?
Thanks again,
Gator
I'm not sure you could use the 1200 carbs on the 1000 heads. The spacing is different because of the hydraulic lifters on the 1200 heads and solids on the 1000 heads. Wider on the 1200 heads.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
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ericheath
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#7

Post by ericheath »

They will work on 1000 heads on a 1200 block. The port matchings isn’t ideal, small 1200 elbows meeting larger 1000 ports, but I had pretty good performance with 85 carbs on mine. The bolt spacing isn’t perfect but can be twisted enough to work. I think they gave me the best mileage of the multiple carb setups I tried.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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robin1731
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#8

Post by robin1731 »

ericheath wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:37 am They will work on 1000 heads on a 1200 block. The port matchings isn’t ideal, small 1200 elbows meeting larger 1000 ports, but I had pretty good performance with 85 carbs on mine. The bolt spacing isn’t perfect but can be twisted enough to work. I think they gave me the best mileage of the multiple carb setups I tried.

OK, I thought the heads were wider. Is it the block then that is wider?
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#9

Post by wingrider »

Yep, between the 1000 and 1200 block, the 1200 is about a 1/4” wider.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
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ericheath
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Re: '84 donor to fix and upgrade '77 (Nora)

#10

Post by ericheath »

The extra 100cc’s over the 1100 is mostly stroke. I believe without looking it up the 1100 had 75mm pistons and the 1200 had 75.5mm pistons, not much difference. Stroke went from 61.4mm to 66mm.

The 1000 and 1100 had the same stroke but the 1000 had 72mm pistons.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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