Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

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lilleG
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Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#1

Post by lilleG »

Greetings!

When shifting gears on my 1976 GL1000, notably when going from third to fourth and from fourth to fifth, the gears often grind as if I was trying to shift without using the clutch. This problem does not occur every time and I feel like it happens more often when I have been riding for a while.

I figured there must be something wrong with the clutch so I put it on the center-stand and found that the back-wheel starts spinning when I shift into first even when holding the clutch all the way in. If I apply the brake the wheel stops and does (usually) not start spinning again when I let go of the brake. If I give the wheel a slight push it starts spinning again. Here is a video of what happens when I shift into first while holding in the clutch:


I found the procedure for adjusting the clutch cable in the Clymer manual but as a previous owner has installed an hydraulic clutch this wasn't much help. I tried instead changing the brake fluid in the hydraulic clutch and bled it but this did not help.

Here are some photos of the clutch that has been installed. I tried removing the outermost section but the part of the frame the center-stand is attached to is in the way. I have not tried removing the next section (where the silver and black meet) as I suspect I would need to drain the oil and the gasket that is installed here looks very fragile.

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Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#2

Post by Whiskerfish »

Wheel turning on the center stand is normal. All of mine have done that. I think it is just the friction of the oil between the clutch plates.
I have only played with one of the hyd conversions and I had to have help for that, so an expert I am not, but I wonder if maybe they did not use the correct "push pin". (tech term escapes me at this moment)
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lilleG
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#3

Post by lilleG »

Whiskerfish wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:13 am Wheel turning on the center stand is normal. All of mine have done that. I think it is just the friction of the oil between the clutch plates.
Would you say that the amount of turning is the same as you have experienced on your bikes? I am not able to stop the rotation with my bare hand (perhaps if my life depended on it).

The rotation on the center-stand is not the issue itself, but rather the "difficulty" in shifting gears. So if there is another (hopefully easier to fix) solution to the problem that would be great!
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#4

Post by gltriker »

lilleG wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:34 pm
Whiskerfish wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:13 am Wheel turning on the center stand is normal. All of mine have done that. I think it is just the friction of the oil between the clutch plates.
Would you say that the amount of turning is the same as you have experienced on your bikes? I am not able to stop the rotation with my bare hand (perhaps if my life depended on it).

The rotation on the center-stand is not the issue itself, but rather the "difficulty" in shifting gears. So if there is another (hopefully easier to fix) solution to the problem that would be great!
Although I don't have a stock shifter lever on my 75 GL1000 trike, I believe if the original shifter lever, itself, isn't clocked correctly on the shifter shaft that might be causing difficulties with up shifting through the gears.
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#5

Post by CYBORG »

Type and weight of oil has been known to effect shifting as well
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#6

Post by robin1731 »

CYBORG wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:18 pm Type and weight of oil has been known to effect shifting as well
Also old oil. Many shifting "problems" can be fixed with a fresh oil change. ;)
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#7

Post by pidjones »

On the GL1000 rear case (which yours does not seem to be), the large cover ther is just thin steel with a gasket only intended to keep dirt out. It even has a drain slot in the bottom. Does your bike have a kick start socket? I suspect it does not, and that the entire rear case has been replaced by one from a GL1100. If so, you should check GL1100 manuals for info.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#8

Post by lilleG »

pidjones wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:35 am Does your bike have a kick start socket? I suspect it does not, and that the entire rear case has been replaced by one from a GL1100. If so, you should check GL1100 manuals for info.
It has a kick start socket. I have never started the engine using the kick-start but I tested it just now and was able to give it a "kick". Does this mean I could remove the next section (where the black section meets the silver section) without worrying too much? And would there be anything there which could help me diagnose my problem further?

Thank you to everyone for all your responses!
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#9

Post by gltriker »

lilleG wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:29 pm
pidjones wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:35 am Does your bike have a kick start socket? I suspect it does not, and that the entire rear case has been replaced by one from a GL1100. If so, you should check GL1100 manuals for info.
It has a kick start socket. I have never started the engine using the kick-start but I tested it just now and was able to give it a "kick". Does this mean I could remove the next section (where the black section meets the silver section) without worrying too much? And would there be anything there which could help me diagnose my problem further?

Thank you to everyone for all your responses!
Maybe there are some things in this Topic to help with your diagnosis. https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 88#p792088

After opening the link above to see that Topic, scroll all the way down that page to 'SimilarTopics.'
There are typically 5 or 6 additional Similar Topics to add to your study session. ;)

note: scroll down on this page, too, to Similar Topics .

see this Club member's highly regarded Tutorial, too-
viewtopic.php?p=136393#p136393

Done tumb2
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Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#10

Post by Shadowjack »

I've done the hydraulic conversion on my 77. When I used an OEM GL1200 master cylinder, all was well, but the angle of the bars is different between the 1200 and my 1000, and the reservoir was at an angle that I didn't like. I swapped the MC for one from Ebay that sits more level, but it JUST barely has enough travel to get the clutch completely disengaged. You have to move enough fluid to move the slave cylinder the required amount to lift the pressure plate completely, while keeping the ratios within reason so you can squeeze the lever. Your MC looks like mine. Not a lot of aftermarket clutch MCs out there, but one from a Honda V-four 1000 of about the same age is about right. Except it doesn't match my Ebay brake MC...
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#11

Post by Old Fogey »

From your first post, everything sounds completely normal, other than a louder than normal clunk into gear (They ALL do that). You may have air in the system - the hydro clutch is a devil to bleed out.
Servicing the slave cylinder means dropping the engine, no other way. But it doesn't sound like that is necessary to me.
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#12

Post by Whiskerfish »

Old Fogey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:48 amSNIP

Servicing the slave cylinder means dropping the engine, no other way. SNIP

????????????????????????????????????????????
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#13

Post by CYBORG »

Whiskerfish wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:55 am
Old Fogey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:48 amSNIP

Servicing the slave cylinder means dropping the engine, no other way. SNIP

????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#14

Post by wingrider »

Guessing Old fogey meant that you have to pull the engine when the hydraulic clutch cover was swapped into a 1000 frame…
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Re: Hydraulic clutch not fully disengaging

#15

Post by CYBORG »

From the pictures, it looks like it could be removed, while in the frame. A little tight, but...... I have not dealt with the conversion in a 1000 frame. So the pictures might be misleading But I would want to be sure that the slave and the master are matched
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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