Won't start post-carb rebuild

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DSA
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Won't start post-carb rebuild

#1

Post by DSA »

Hi,

As I've been posting about in various other threads, I got a non-runner GL1000, rebuilt the carbs per Randakk's DVD and am now trying to get it to start - without success. I can hear the starter doing its thing, but the engine will not start.
Here are some of the specifics:
- I do NOT have the gas tank installed right now, as I still need to paint it (I had it boiled and coated internally). Currently, there is nothing attached to the fuel pump's input, or its output (see below)
- I added about 100 ml of fuel to the carbs...Randakk says 180 mL, but I need to work on my funnel setup to get more in there. I would have thought 100 mL would be enough to atleast get it started, though it will not idle for long.
- To summarize the above - there is currently no fuel being input into the carbs other than the ~100 mL I already put in there.
- Brand new battery, showing ~13V
- I made sure the engine wasn't stuck; I turned it over by hand a few times, and then used the kickstarter as well with the plugs off to evict any crap that might be in there.
- Brand new plugs.

Any of this raise any red flags?

Thanks in advance - I've been dying to hear this thing run and feel like I am so close!
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#2

Post by Lucien Harpress »

Most obvious thing would be not enough fuel. If you don't have an auxiliary "IV" tank, I would highly recommend getting one. That way rather than relying on a predetermined amount of fuel, you got both enough fuel for whatever you need, plus mimicking some amount of fuel pressure. That lets all your internal carb bits do their job.

Apart from that, just the other basic basic stuff. How's compression? Are you getting spark? Can you get it to fart off of starter fluid at least?
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
DSA
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#3

Post by DSA »

Thanks for the response. I still need to check spark, and compression (will need to go buy a new gauge). Might try and rig up an auxiliary IV-style tank using a better sized funnel. Thanks for the suggestion!
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#4

Post by Lucien Harpress »

The old quick-and-dirty way to check compression (if you don't have gauges) is to cover the spark plug holes with a thumb or finger then crank the engine over. If you can't keep your finger from being blown off the spark plug hole, USUALLY that's enough compression to get it to fire. Spark is as easy as grounding the plug on the case and seeing if you have spark.

But my bet's on the gas. Good luck!
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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pidjones
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#5

Post by pidjones »

Hang the fuel cell about three feet above the carbs. I use a 500ml isopropyl alcohol bottle with a home-made barb in the bottom. And a cut-off valve.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
DSA
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#6

Post by DSA »

Will give the home-style compression a go!
For the aux tank - I could also just hook the tank's output to the fuel pump's inlet, right? Then pressure head would be less of a concern?
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
toomanybikes
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#7

Post by toomanybikes »

pidjones wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:27 pm Hang the fuel cell about three feet above the carbs. I use a 500ml isopropyl alcohol bottle with a home-made barb in the bottom. And a cut-off valve.
Homemade options are great, but these days there are reasonably cheap options (under $20) available via Amazon or similar. Quality isn't great, but it's just an aux tank.
Greater Boston MA, USA
Stable as of 26Dec22: '81 GL1100, '10 Bonnie SE, '86 Yamaha Radian, '83 Suzuki GS650L, '14 Moto Guzzi California, '85 Honda V30 Magna
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Lucien Harpress
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#8

Post by Lucien Harpress »

DSA wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:34 pm Will give the home-style compression a go!
For the aux tank - I could also just hook the tank's output to the fuel pump's inlet, right? Then pressure head would be less of a concern?
You could. But for testing purposes (in my opinion) that would add too many unnecessary variables. Remember, the only reason you have a pump is because the stock tank is too low to gravity feed. Get your aux. tank higher than the carbs, and you eliminate this problem.

Overpressure shouldn't be a thing, because the amount of fuel you can fit in the tank doesn't weigh that much, and proper fuel metering is what the float valves are for.

That said, assuming your pump works fine (they usually do, they're pretty robust), you're not hurting anything hooking your tank to the inlet either.
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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dontwantapickle
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#9

Post by dontwantapickle »

My auxiliary fuel tank is just a gas tank off of an old lawnmower.
I hook it up to the fuel pump when working on goldwings.
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#10

Post by Whiskerfish »

"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
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and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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gltriker
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#11

Post by gltriker »

Disregard :-D

I located the answers to my questions in this Topic: tumb2

" Getting ready to try and start it up for the first time "
by DSA » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:04 pm » in GoldWing
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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pidjones
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#12

Post by pidjones »

Just remember that if you go through the pump, it needs to crank a lot more than you would think to fill the bowls. BTW, my home-made cell has lasted ten years and counting.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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dontwantapickle
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#13

Post by dontwantapickle »

There are many ways to get the skin off of a cat.
(fortunately, I have skinned enough of these cats over the years to know what works best for me.)
good luck getting your bike to run.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#14

Post by Sidecar Bob »

100cc of fuel isn't enough. However you do it you need to get the full 180cc into the bowls before it will start.
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gltriker
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Re: Won't start post-carb rebuild

#15

Post by gltriker »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:17 am 100cc of fuel isn't enough. However you do it you need to get the full 180cc into the bowls before it will start.
+ 1 with Bob's advice. You will discover the regulated fuel level in these shallow fuel bowls will have partially evaporated from radiated engine heat as and after the operationally hot engine is shut off. Enough so, that next day you may have to crank the engine longer than you would have expected, with the choke button fully pulled out, with the high idle speed mechanism set, until the mechanical fuel pump refills the fuel bowls again. The engine is generally considered to be "cold blooded." I believe folks that haven't become familiar with carbureted automotive gasoline engines in their younger lifetime, and a bit impatient, are not prepared to have a multi-carburetors, liquid cooled motorcycle engine demand they follow its rules. ;)

Set all 4 carburetors' pilot air/fuel mixture needles at 3 full turns out from seated. Yes, it provides several benefits and was recommended by Mike Nixon.

No, that small amount of additional pilot fuel mixture volume won't carbon foul spark plugs in a good mechanical condition, and well tuned engine.

Make sure the OFF/RUN/OFF right handlebar * Engine Control * (aka "kill" ) switch is selected to its RUN position, too. ;)

Twist the throttle grip open a quarter turn, before pulling the choke button, completely outwards. Done as directed?
Release the throttle. Doing so allows the choke shutters to fully close and sets the high idle speed mechanism at 3,000 rpms. note: You may have to hold the released throttle grip in the fully choked high idle position to prevent it creeping closed ( back to the normal curb idle speed) while cranking the engine. You will become familiar with modulating the choke and throttle positions as you grow to understand the engine warm-up temperature gauge reading.

Understand, the engine's idle speed synchronized carburetors' procedure is accomplished with a fully warmed up to normal operating temperatures, engine. Riding the motorcycle for a 1/2 hour in normal weather conditions ( 70ish degrees) and a fuel tank full of fresh gasoline prepares the engine to be correctly, dynamically, engine idle speed synchronized. While the rubber sleeves of the intake elbows are still operationally hot, tighten their respective band clamp screws again. Then, perform the dynamic synchronization procedures.

The 3 turns out from seated, pilot air/fuel mixture needle setting assists the less experienced tuner to complete the dynamic synchronizing session by reducing sensitivities to the minute synchronizing screws' adjustments.

Done for now tumb2
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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