Spring Startup Woes

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pidjones
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#31

Post by pidjones »

It has been noted that along with ultrasonic cleaning, squirting through ALL passages and jets (brake cleaner is commonly used) really is a must to make sure they are all clean. The little ports under the pucks are particularly hard to check.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#32

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Why would you us brake cleaner instead of carb cleaner?

Red: Pooling in the plenum can cause similar symptoms and we know there is fuel in there so that must be addressed first.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#33

Post by Dirty Dave »

Well Mr. gltriker.....

Pulled the carbs and tried the pressure test. (New Mityvac in tomorrow)

Shoulda saved my money 'cause the good old turkey baster did the trick.
Gas leaks outta float valves 3 & 4. Good start.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#34

Post by gltriker »

POST#34

;
Dirty Dave wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:10 pm Well Mr. gltriker.....

Pulled the carbs and tried the pressure test. (New Mityvac in tomorrow)

Shoulda saved my money 'cause the good old turkey baster did the trick. action1
Gas leaks outta float valves 3 & 4. Good start.

particulate filter screens are securely in place on the inlet end of those float valve seats?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77867
*
Float set - brass seat and filter screen.jpg
Float set - brass seat and filter screen.jpg (24.36 KiB) Viewed 330 times
*
*
has Genuine Honda float valve needles, too? :oldies
https://www.randakksblog.com/more-probl ... /#more-399
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:02 am, edited 7 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
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^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
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Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
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pidjones
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#35

Post by pidjones »

Sidecar Bob wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:06 am Why would you us brake cleaner instead of carb cleaner?
I used to, but carb cleaner usually contains acetone and other solvents that attack plastics, which I have all over the shop. Brake cleaner (at least, the ones that I buy) does not, but still does a great job cleaning carbs, even surprisingly good at dissolving varnish. But then, you always will find something that I write to comment on, so....
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - finished and FOR SALE!
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#36

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Good reason. I generally use methyl alcohol for similar reasons but it isn't easy to spray so I usually have a can of carb cleaner in the shop.
Maybe I'll stop buying carb cleaner.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#37

Post by redglbx »

Cliff, something your post reminded me of that was a source of flooding on the LTD I did last year in addition to the porosity in the plenum. At some point someone before me had replaced the float valves and initially I found valves with 3 different lengths and differing diameters as well. Not good !

So I bought some new non-Honda float valves and once installed they still leaked, throwing these carbs in my burn barrel was becoming a real possibility, particularly if they had been mine, dunno !

Anyway ultimately I bit the bullet and paid up for oe Honda valves & seats AND deburred the tang on the floats (which I weight matched) and now it all worked smoothly. Add-in the 3rd new non-porous plenum and it worked well. I will add that there is nothing on this carb set that I did not check and verify it to be in-spec and flat and smooth.

I will never ever not 100% check every detail and I will only use factory oe Honda float valves, just not worth the risk & serious stress. Don’t take anything for granted!
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#38

Post by Dirty Dave »

Just read Mike Nixon's warning about not using after market float valves
because the chrome plating deteriorates. Oops. Used one from K&L.

Also noticed a missing filter screen. Guess I'll be back in there one day soon.
Didn't see the part offered by Randakk and couldn't find it on the fiche.

At this point I just want to see if it runs.
1978/9 GL1000
1997 Honda Valkyrie
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gltriker
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#39

Post by gltriker »

-POST#39

redglbx wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:53 pm snip-
I will never ever not 100% check every detail and I will only use factory oe Honda float valves, just not worth the risk & serious stress. Don’t take anything for granted!
Red,
I'm a firm believer about the robustness of the Genuine Honda Float Set needles, too.
Back in 2013 I had to get to North Carolina quickly and left trike sitting with a full tank of 'gasoline'.
About 5 weeks later, I once again was ready to ride. When I cranked the engine over it was refusing to catch and run.
I removed the air filter cover and found gasoline in the plenum. Stuck my nose in the filler neck to catch a whiff of what the 'gasoline' may have deteriorated into.
Anyways, I removed the carburetors and discovered each oring, blanking plug, fuel bowl gasket, plenum-to-carburetor flange D ring ANd the plenum gasket was either melted or swollen. That's where the photos I posted a few days ago came from.
I drained the fuel tank and whatever was in that 'gasoline' unexpectedly stung the skin on the back of my hands.
anyways...
I thoroughly cleaned all 4 carburetors and installed the contents of another Randakk kit to git er done.
With a fresh tank of gasoline it started and ran, normally, again and I went loafing over to my buddy's house.
After a few hours riding, I smelled gasoline and noted an occasional drip of fuel weeping out of the atmospheric vent of the fuel pump. Come On!!
I bought a new fuel pump ($100) and took care of that problem. What else is going to happen?!

This!
The first time I had to flip the fuel lever to reserve, the engine had already quit running. But, the engine would not catch and run. Yes, there was fuel visible in the tank.
A fellow saw me, asked me if I ran out of gas, and carried over a gas can . Put about a gallon in the tank, flipped the fuel lever back to the run position and the engine started and ran correctly. Rode to a gas station and filled the fuel tank with 87 octane.

All's well until the next time(#2) I had to flip over the fuel valve to reserve. Same thing, fuel is visible in the tank, triple A road service delivered a 2 gallon refill and I had already flipped the fuel lever back to run. The engine started and ran correctly, again! When I arrived back home, I pulled the fuel hose off the fuel valve barb fitting, turned the fuel valve to reserve, and gasoline ran out freely. hmmm

The 3rd time, I had Triple A just pick up trike and we were delivered about 1 mile to my house. Parked it for the night. enough...
The next morning, although there was no external witness of an internal problem, I disassembled the fuel valve. "petcock"













DSCN0419 trike's fuel valve.JPG
DSCN0419 trike's fuel valve.JPG (42.74 KiB) Viewed 278 times
DSCN0425 fuel valve disc valve.JPG
DSCN0425 fuel valve disc valve.JPG (32.32 KiB) Viewed 278 times
DSCN0442 crumbs of fuel valve disc in the filter.JPG
DSCN0442 crumbs of fuel valve disc in the filter.JPG (52.47 KiB) Viewed 278 times
The Genuine Honda Float Set needle valves and seats I had first put into service in 2012 were not affected in the 2013 rubber bits carnage. They Still looked fine 8 years and almost 32,000 miles later. All 4 Float Set o rings were trashed, though. refer to the photo I posted several days ago, too.
20230802_173219.jpg
20230802_173219.jpg (31.59 KiB) Viewed 142 times
Last edited by gltriker on Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#40

Post by gltriker »

POST #40
Dirty Dave wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:09 pm Just read Mike Nixon's warning about not using after market float valves
because the chrome plating deteriorates. Oops. Used one from K&L.

Also noticed a missing filter screen. Guess I'll be back in there one day soon.
Didn't see the part offered by Randakk and couldn't find it on the fiche.

At this point I just want to see if it runs. ME TOOOOO DAVE! MAKE IT RUN, 100% ;) [/size][/size]
The filter screen and brass seat OD o ring comes along with the new Float Valve Set.
per Randakk's tech blog: "Latest superseded part number is: 16011-371-014 “VALVE SET, FLOAT” Nike insists: Just Do IT!

I have purchased Genuine Honda Parts from this fellow on ebay. : JTMARKS Motorcycle Parts


20230808_144743.jpg
20230808_144743.jpg (30.49 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#41

Post by 5speed »

awesome info in this thread..this site rocks..
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#42

Post by Dirty Dave »

5speed wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:07 am awesome info in this thread..this site rocks..
Really. I knew nothing. Just learning the ins & outs of these carbs.

Thank you for the link Cliff. I will be ordering.

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1997 Honda Valkyrie
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#43

Post by Shadowjack »

I just checked the dealer price for float valves for some 1200 carbs. Around $62 apiece... You can see why people buy the aftermarket stuff, but going by Gltriker's story, they're going to be worth it.
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#44

Post by redglbx »

Cliff, I’ve used the K+L brand float valves for years w/o issue but after my friends LTD fiasco I’ve just decided to only use the oe Honda valves, there is a difference ! The oe set is noticeably better and come with quality seats and new seat filters that actually fit very well. Lots of little things like that do make a difference.

Now I do believe that the K+L brand is pretty good but not as good as the oe’s but the oe’s are generally in the $25ea range so there is a big price difference. I do believe that the float valves that Mike Nixon showed with the peeling chrome were some of the cheap Chinese versions off of eBay and the same applies to the one’s I found in my friends Ltd , just utter crap ! Don’t buy or use those !

One other thing, Jack be careful buying from your dealer as a lot of unscrupulous dealers will substitute K+L brand valves as Honda OE valves, whiles I believe that the K+L valves aren’t terrible they aren’t as good as the oe’s and you can get 4 new K+L’s for around $25 or less vs the OE’s around $25ea. Big difference.

Same thing goes for the rubber bits, the cheap Chinese crap when submitted to the alcohol in todays fuel will fail with time vs the more expensive Randakks rubber bits which are made from Viton which is impervious to most chemicals like the alcohol in todays fuel. Now I will add that I tested a lot of rubbers for different applications before I retired and Viton is a good choice, it is a little harder rubber-so your sealing surfaces need to be cleaner and flat but Viton should be reusable and last a lifetime. Guess we’ve about beat all that to death.

Good luck Dave, let us know how things work out !
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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Dirty Dave
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Re: Spring Startup Woes

#45

Post by Dirty Dave »

Snow is back so I won't be firing it up today.
1978/9 GL1000
1997 Honda Valkyrie
2018 Kawasaki Z900 RS
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