charging question..help.

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5speed
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charging question..help.

#1

Post by 5speed »

I have a friends 92 kawasaki vulcan 500 here. I stored it for the winter for her.
We were heading out for a ride yesterday and her's wouldn't start. I boosted it and it started but when I unhooked the battery cables it quit.
I repeated this a few times with the same result although it gradually took longer to quit. the idle was going up and down on it then it would quit.
I pulled the battery out and noticed all the cells were down on acid. I assumed I found the problem.
I topped them up with distilled water, let it sit over night and when I put the trickle charger on it, it was showing fully charged.
I tested it with my multi meter and it's showing 6 volts.
So I called her and told her I think her battery is toast and she told me this is the third battery she's bought for the bike in the 4 years she's had it. :shock:
Between that and the cells being down on acid I'm thinking the bike is overcharging the battery.
Now the stupid question.. :mrgreen:
I looked up a voltage regulator for her bike and it has both a voltage regulator and a rectifier / regulator listed.
question A...does the bike have both or one or the other?
B. Is there a way to bench test them?
ETA..I was boosting off the battery in my truck but it wasn't running.
1982 1100 standard.
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)
2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
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pidjones
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Re: charging question..help.

#2

Post by pidjones »

It has either a rectifier and a regulator, or a reg/rect combined. Find out if it has a PM alternator or excited rotor. If the later, high chance of brush or commutator problems (usually easy to fix) or field or stator winding problems (not easy). On the excited field coil system, the regulator adjusts current to the field windings (which are electro magnets) to control the amount of charging. With the PM system (like our older GLs), the permanent magnet rotors constantly create current flow (as long as the bike is running) in the stator, and the regulator dumps anything not needed to ground. Rectifiers on either system convert AC two or three phase to DC.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
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Re: charging question..help.

#3

Post by Track T 2411 »

I looked it up on Partzilla.com. The rectifier is shown as part of the 'chassis electrical' and the regulator as part of the charging system, so one of each...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

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Re: charging question..help.

#4

Post by gltriker »

Start with a new battery, again. tumb2
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
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^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
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Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: charging question..help.

#5

Post by Track T 2411 »

gltriker wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:31 pm Start with a new battery, again. tumb2
Yeah, the battery will probably not recover...
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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Re: charging question..help.

#6

Post by gltriker »

Track T 2411 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:05 pm
gltriker wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:31 pm Start with a new battery, again. tumb2
Yeah, the battery will probably not recover...
I'd bet there will be a significant amount of battery gasses corrosion damage on all electrical connections around the battery, too. ;)

snip " she told me this is the third battery she's bought for the bike in the 4 years she's had it. :shock: "

When you receive a new battery, whether wet charged or dry charged, ALWAYS correctly and completely fully charge it first.
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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5speed
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Re: charging question..help.

#7

Post by 5speed »

gltriker wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:31 pm Start with a new battery, again. tumb2
she is getting a new battery...but does the cells being down on acid indicate an issue?
How does one determine if she has charging issues?
1982 1100 standard.
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)
2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
1983 Shadow 500. (sold)
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Re: charging question..help.

#8

Post by Whiskerfish »

First thing is to see what it is doing. Charge the new battery and install then start it up and measure voltage at the battery. nominal for a fresh fully charged battery is about 12.8 With the bike running you should see a steady climb to 14.5 or so at the battery terminals. Depending on the draw to start it may have dropped down but a fresh battery with a good charging system should recover in just a few minutes.
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5speed
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Re: charging question..help.

#9

Post by 5speed »

Whiskerfish wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:07 pm First thing is to see what it is doing. Charge the new battery and install then start it up and measure voltage at the battery. nominal for a fresh fully charged battery is about 12.8 With the bike running you should see a steady climb to 14.5 or so at the battery terminals. Depending on the draw to start it may have dropped down but a fresh battery with a good charging system should recover in just a few minutes.
okay. If it is up past 14.5 Volts then we have problems?
If this was a car with an alternator I could sort it out, stators, rectifiers are outside my wheelhouse.
1982 1100 standard.
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)
2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
1983 Shadow 500. (sold)
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Re: charging question..help.

#10

Post by Whiskerfish »

14.5 is about ideal. pushing 15 or more is doing damage to the battery by overcharging.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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5speed
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Re: charging question..help.

#11

Post by 5speed »

Whiskerfish wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:36 pm 14.5 is about ideal. pushing 15 or more is doing damage to the battery by overcharging.
sounds good.
she is getting a dry battery tomorrow. I'm going to fill it, let it sit over night then put it on my trickle charger then go from there.
1982 1100 standard.
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)
2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
1983 Shadow 500. (sold)
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Re: charging question..help.

#12

Post by gltriker »

5speed wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:40 pm
Whiskerfish wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:36 pm 14.5 is about ideal. pushing 15 or more is doing damage to the battery by overcharging.
sounds good.
she is getting a dry battery tomorrow. I'm going to fill it, let it sit over night then put it on my trickle charger then go from there.
Is the dry battery an AGM style? If yes, a typical trickle charger may not be suitable to first time activate charge it sufficiently.
Cliff

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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5speed
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Re: charging question..help.

#13

Post by 5speed »

gltriker wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:04 pm

Is the dry battery an AGM style? If yes, a typical trickle charger may not be suitable to first time activate charge it sufficiently.
that I'm not sure of. she said it is $90 so I'm guessing it's old school.
1982 1100 standard.
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)
2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
1983 Shadow 500. (sold)
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Re: charging question..help.

#14

Post by pidjones »

AGMs don't come dry in my experience - always filled and charged (at least 70%).
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
User avatar
Track T 2411
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Re: charging question..help.

#15

Post by Track T 2411 »

pidjones wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:39 am AGMs don't come dry in my experience - always filled and charged (at least 70%).
Depends on where/how you buy them. If you buy it through Amazon, etc. it's usually shipped dry, and requires charging.
"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

"He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail" - Abraham Maslow

"If you can't take the time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to do it over?" -Unknown

Current Rides:
'Grumpy' - '81 Standard, now fully dressed.
'Layla' - '81 Standard w/dealer installed fairing and Hondaline bags.
'Scarlett' '76 'Survivor' nekkid as a j-bird!

Under Construction:
The 'Jalopy' '78-'79 Mash-up
'Quikie' '81 gl1100I back on the lift, project with the step-son!

In The Shed:
'81 gl1100I barn find aka "Josie, the farmer's daughter." (almost comatose build)
'77 gl1000, roller parts bike.
'82 gl1100I, 'Old Crusty' titled roller parts bike (free!)
'82 gl1100I, My first 'Wing, and an expensive lesson!
New2U Bike? Read Me.
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