Cafe Racer or Bobber. What defines the Marque?

[WingMan71]

Subject line asks the question:

What exactly defines a "cafe racer" and what exactly defines a "bobber"?

What are the distinguishing and special features of each?

Are there similarities between the two marques, or are they completely disparate?

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[Whiskerfish]

Certainly not an expert but a bobber is a stripped minimalist bike. Rear fender "Bobbed" front fender often removed, no bags or fairing with an upright riding position. A Cafe typically has a small fairing and rear set controls with a lean forward riding position.

[desertrefugee]

Bingo. (And “marque” generally denotes a manufacturer rather than a style).

[Lucien Harpress]

Now, I was under the impression that engine modification/improvement was a hallmark of the first "textbook definition" cafe racers? If not through engine mods, than engine swaps from other bikes? And each chanage made was to improve performace in some way?

Whereas bobbers main goal was to strip as much excess "stuff" off as possible.

BUT I could be very wrong, so don't take my word for it.

[CYBORG]

the term "café " came from a movement in England. The "ACE" café was a meeting point for a group of riders who raced from café to café, and around London streets on small bikes that were modified with clip on bars, and set back foot pegs, to allow the rider to maintain a low profile to help increase speed. They were known as "café racers". That's the short version

[Whiskerfish]

the term "café " came from a movement in England. The "ACE" café was a meeting point for a group of riders who raced from café to café, and around London streets on small bikes that were modified with clip on bars, and set back foot pegs, to allow the rider to maintain a low profile to help increase speed. They were known as "café racers". That's the short version

Did not know that. Very cool!!

[desertrefugee]

And many of those old rascals still do it! Of course, now they're joined by legions of younger riders. Ace Cafe is a very popular biking meeting place.

[JamesPal]

Cafe Racer is a bike used for cafe racing. Correct, cafe racing started in the UK back in the 60s. The idea was to put a Shilling in the jukebox, run out to an agreed to place and get back before the song ran out. Of course this turned into a contest of who had the fastest bike. In those days most British bikes were smaller capacity transportation bikes. There were the 'big' British bikes, mostly 500 to 650cc. All of the major manufacturers had bikes in this size.
Since cafe racing is about going fast, clip on handle bars, alloy tanks & seats along with engine modifications with dual carburetors open exhausts were popular. Triumph was known for the most responsive engine for tuning and Norton was known for the best handling frames. This led to specials being built such as the Triton. This was a combination of the Triumph 500-650 engine being fitted into the Norton Featherbed frame using the Norton Roadholder forks. These bikes are the classic Cafe Racer.

Bobbers originated at the end of WW2 in Southern CA. GIs returning home were looking for excitement and motorcycling provided the outlet. There were a bunch of surplus Harleys around. To lighten these bikes and to make them more personal people would bob (or chop) fenders and other unneeded things off the bikes.

So when I think cafe racer, small trim light fast bikes. Bobber means 16 inch wheels, vee twins and patina. Just my 2¢

[Sidecar Bob]

Yep. What he said ^^^^

I posted this on another forum a couple of years ago but it bears repeating here:

A few often forgotten facts related to custom bikes:
Why Harleys became the bike of choice for customizers
After WWII there were a lot of war surplus Harleys available really cheap. I you wanted to make some radical change (like cutting the frame to try to improve the handling) you did it to a Harley because if you messed it up you could get another cheap Harley and start over. Since people who were customizing Harleys wanted specialty parts that would fit them an aftermarket industry making "custom" Harley parts grew up and they became the easiest bikes for "bolt on customizing".

Why custom bikes have long forks and high handlebars
Until the '50s the front end geometry of most motorcycles had relatively low trail which resulted in handling that was less than ideal at higher speeds. Those guys who were cutting up and customizing Harleys soon realized that if they tilted the steering head back and installed longer forks they could increase the trail without raising the front end and make them more stable at speed. This is "form follows function" design. People with little understanding of engineering or design thought that if some was good more must be better so they started adding longer and longer forks until it became a fashion statement and they made a lot of un-rideable machines that people drooled over because their ridiculously long forks were "so cool".
High "ape hanger" handlebars came about the same way. People who knew what they were doing understood that you could control a bike better and be more comfortable if the handlebars were at a little below chest height so they put higher bars on than the original very low ones. The same people who went nuts with fork lengths put on higher and higher bars until they were so high you looked like an ape with your arms hanging from them.

Why they are called "choppers"
Machines made for the war had a lot of extra equipment and were based on models designed for the unpaved roads prevalent before the war so they had wide, long fenders. Everyone knows that it isn't the horsepower alone that makes a vehicle faster, but the horsepower to weight ratio. You could only go so far to increase the horsepower of a flathead or pushrod engine without seriously affecting reliability so after you had done all you could with the engine you started reducing the weight. Hot rodders, for example, removed the heavy fenders from the old cars they were working with and substituted much lighter "cycle" fenders. Bike guys not only removed the military equipment they didn't need (who needs a rifle scabbard on a street bike?) but also "chopped" the brackets for that equipment off. They put on smaller, lighter seats and narrower fenders, anything to shed weight.
And they did indeed turn bikes designed in the '30s into custom machines capable of keeping up with traffic on the ever increasing number of paved highways in the '50s & '60s.

Unfortunately, the exaggerated customs became what people associated with the term "Chopper" and that was a sort of evolutionary dead end because there was only so much you could do without becoming just plain stupid.

Also unfortunately, the "cafe racer movement" seems to have lost its way in the same manner as the chopper crowd did. they seem to have forgotten that cafe racers were not modified to look a certain way but rather looked that way because they were modified for valid reasons. If you set about to emulate the look without understanding the reasons for the original modifications you will end up with a Poodle Bike just as surely as if you built a raked & slammed monstrosity with ape hangers and a 5' sissy bar. (Poodles were originally bread as hunting dogs, a noble and useful job for a canine, but when the fashion crowd realized that their woolly hair could be grown out and cut into ridiculous styles the breed were turned into something completely useless.)

I highly recommend that anyone who wants to build a custom bike of any sort should start by actually using the bike daily for a while so that they can figure out what needs to be improved to make it do what they want it to do. Long highway trips? Maybe you need a softer seat, a big windshield (or maybe a fairing) and highway pegs. Cruising the strip? Good, compliant suspension for those potholes, a bit of tuning for green light takeoffs and maybe some paint that makes it look fast at around town speeds. Canyon carving (including "urban canyons")? Low bars and rearsets so you can tuck in out of the wind and a small windshield for streamlining, again some tuning for speed and then lighten everything that won't affect strength.

BUT before you start changing anything do a lot of reading (much easier these days with the internet) and figure out what you actually need to do to accomplish your goals. And check & test things at every stage. If you make a dozen changes between trials you may not be able to figure out where your mistake was without undoing them all.

AND for heaven's sake remember that you should never change anything that can effect how the bike works for purely cosmetic reasons. That never works out well. People who understand why a bike must look the way it does will laugh at you. People who don't understand won't laugh but they won't think it looks quite right either.

[scootsx2]

Yep. What he said ^^^^

I posted this on another forum a couple of years ago but it bears repeating here:

... text deleted for brevity

An excellent read.

[Sidecar Bob]

Thanks.

[gltriker]

Ummmmmm Sidecar Bob said- You could only go so far to increase the horsepower of a flathead pushrod engine.

What is a flathead pushrod engine?

[CYBORG]

Ummmmmm Sidecar Bob said- You could only go so far to increase the horsepower of a flathead pushrod engine.

What is a flathead pushrod engine?

Good question.

[Sidecar Bob]

Oops. Should read "flathead or pushrod". Corrected now.

[desertrefugee]

I kinda like my "Poodle Bike".