What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

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x01660
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What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#1

Post by x01660 »

Greetings everyone.

I've been reading a bunch about people swapping 1200 motors into the 1000, and I wanna know:

How difficult is the swap?
Are there any frame mods that have to be done?
What year 1200 is the best to do the swap?

and

How much of a difference on the "butt dyno" is the 94HP 1200 vs 78HP 1000?

My idea is to buy a 1200 motor, spend the time cleaning carbs, changing belts, etc., then when its ready, do the swap in one go.

If anyone who's experienced with this could chime in, I'd be most appreciative.

Or would I be better off trying to find a naked GL1200 and calling it a day?
-x01660

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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#2

Post by desertrefugee »

I've not done the swap, but have considered it. The motor pretty much slides right in place. The best setup would be the 1200 block, early 1000 heads/cams and the 1000 drive unit (and gearing). Folks who have done it (or threads detailing it) will give you the particulars - especially the scoop on driveline issues you'll need to grapple with.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#3

Post by CYBORG »

I have an 86 1200 in a 77 1000 frame. Real easy. Final drive, output shaft of the engine, has to be changed to mate up to the 1000 rear drive. Rear case needs a little shaving on the upper left rear. And I run without the gaskets on the belt covers. Ofcourse coils and ign module have to be added. I prefer the 1200 heads, carbs, and exhaust, and cams
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#4

Post by x01660 »

CYBORG wrote:I have an 86 1200 in a 77 1000 frame. Real easy. Final drive, output shaft of the engine, has to be changed to mate up to the 1000 rear drive. Rear case needs a little shaving on the upper left rear. And I run without the gaskets on the belt covers. Ofcourse coils and ign module have to be added. I prefer the 1200 heads, carbs, and exhaust, and cams

Ok, perfect! Do you have a writeup or a thread with details and pictures? If so, PM it to me, and you can delete this thread. No point in clogging up the forum. Thanks so much. :mrgreen:
-x01660

"The best motorcycle is the one well ridden" anim-cheers1

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#5

Post by robin1731 »

Cyborg doesn't do pictures. ;)

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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#6

Post by ericheath »

84 engine will not fit without either removing the rear ignition (see Wingrider’s posts) or notching ( or altering) the rear crossmember. 85-87 will drop in. Above the rear stator, some 1000 frames fit, some don’t. Mine took a little love from a hammer. Still has only 0.040” clearance. I was able to use the 1200 belt covers with the gasket but had to grind a bit of the cover away on the lower right. I didn’t have to grind all the way through but it must have been pretty close. ( I since swapped to 1000 heads and use 1000 covers without the seal/ gasket.)

The rest is a pretty straight swap except as Cyborg mentioned, you need to swap out the output shaft which is in the rear cover. The drive shaft will fit the 1200 output shaft but won’t stay on as it lacks the groove for the snap ring.

Some advantages are that the 1000 or 1100 output shaft drives the oil pump and water pump about 8% faster. ( memory might be sketchy there. That was from Old Fogey)

I’m thinking the best swap might be a 1200 in an 1100. 1200 in a 1000 screams but is tricky in first gear. I ended up taking off in second all the time.

For everything I’ve done to mine, it would have been easier to just get a 1200.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#7

Post by CYBORG »

x01660 wrote:
CYBORG wrote:I have an 86 1200 in a 77 1000 frame. Real easy. Final drive, output shaft of the engine, has to be changed to mate up to the 1000 rear drive. Rear case needs a little shaving on the upper left rear. And I run without the gaskets on the belt covers. Ofcourse coils and ign module have to be added. I prefer the 1200 heads, carbs, and exhaust, and cams

Ok, perfect! Do you have a writeup or a thread with details and pictures? If so, PM it to me, and you can delete this thread. No point in clogging up the forum. Thanks so much. :mrgreen:
as stated, I don't do pictures. if you need detailed, step by step instructions on this conversion, perhaps you don't have the design, and mechanical skills to pull it off. I realize what is simple to me, might not be easy for someone else. if you bring it to me, i'm happy to show you how, and help you do it. if not trial and error is your best teacher. has always worked for me.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#8

Post by Shadowjack »

I'm right in the middle of doing this swap: '85 engine into '75 frame. I have a '77 1000 and have had a couple of 1200s. The 1000 needs a little bit of revs to pull good and hard; the 1200 is much fiercer nearly from idle. I also wanted to lose the 150-pound difference, hence the swap.
Only have the engine set into the frame right now; doing a lot of other stuff besides. I had to seriously dent (reduced by half the thickness) the left frame tube near the stator cover to clear at all. Found the '85 cover is 8 mm deeper than either the '84 or '75 engines. This also has the effect of blocking removal of the clutch cylinder with the engine in the frame. Of course the '84 ignition interferes at the cross tube behind the engine, as said, so you have to do some frame work no matter which.
Carb rack is VERY tight, and may not be removable with the fuel tank installed. 1200 airbox won't clear without some work. Fuel tank touched the stator cover, so I had to hammer it down a bit. Stripping a 1200 wiring harness for the changes I need to use the electric fuel pump and 1200 ignition. Haven't gotten to the front of the engine yet. Exhaust not addressed yet.
I gave some thought to the gearing differences, and have done the 1100 swingarm swap, with the early-1100 same-size wheels as the 1000, so I don't have to change the final shaft. Next spring we should see what a 20% bigger engine with a 10% overall higher final ratio feels like.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#9

Post by ericheath »

Carbs will fit, but tight. Removing the slide cap can help, but risks the diaphragms.
First pic shows another area that was very tight on mine. It is just below the starter. It caused a tough alignment on my second motor which was an 87. (That’s the kickstand spring in front) It cost me a fingernail.
[attachment=2]FBAC0D40-AEE2-4C1D-AA92-D836AC5601C2.jpeg[/attachment
The second shows the stator cover frame issue.
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Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#10

Post by wingrider »

As Eric pointed out, an 84 needs a little work to fit in the 1000 frame. You do not need to do any frame mods if you go with 1000 heads on the 1200 block, and get rid of the ignition on the back of the engine.

Mine fits a lot easier than Eric’s did! Being this one fit so easy, the 85 EFI engine should give me fits going into the 78 frame.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#11

Post by Shadowjack »

Here's how much I had to adjust mine. I had some extra sheetmetal and double-walled both sides where I dented it. The engine isn't resting in the frame yet, so the clearance should increase a little. I did have to remove the right carb tops to get the rack in. Pain to get them on again, as well.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#12

Post by robin1731 »

Shadowjack wrote:snip.............. I did have to remove the right carb tops to get the rack in. Pain to get them on again, as well.
You have to do that with 1000 carbs on a 1000 engine in a 1000 frame too. Same with an 1100. ;)

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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#13

Post by Easter »

My last build was a 1000 with 1100 engine block and early 1000 heads and cams. Only requirement is to use the ignition setup from the 1000 instead of the stock 1100 ignition unless you relocate the rear cross member. Currently I am building a 1200 and I think I will be happier with it than the 1000. The frame and front end are undoubtedly a bit heavier but also stronger. Wheels and tires are larger. Stripped to the essentials I don't think it will weigh anywhere close to 150 lbs more than a stock 1000.
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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#14

Post by x01660 »

Thank you all for the responses.

I think given what I've read, that I'd be better off getting a naked 1200. I can do maintenance, but it seems that there's a lot of modding that has to go on. More than I anticipated.

So, its either get a 1200, or I pay someone to do the swap for me.

So probably 1200. '84 was the last year of the naked 1200, right?

In any case, thanks again for the advice. :)
-x01660

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Re: What's involved in an 1200 engine swap into a 1000 frame?

#15

Post by MegaDan »

I have entertained the 1200 engine as well. It's definitely involved, but I personally don't think the 1000 gearing is well suited to the torquier, lower revving nature of the 1200 engine (its not much, but its something).

The 1000's make great power, and the gearing is well matched to their engines higher RPM nature - they really love to rev. The 1000's were the "sportiest" of the Goldwings. Shortest wheel base, higher revving engine with higher RPM peak power, and as near as makes no difference, no slower than a 1200 in acceleration if you compare most tests.

I believe the fastest of the Goldwings in acceleartion was the early 1100's. If speed is your thing, then I would say go with an early 1100. I will stick with my 1000, it's relatively nimble for what it is, and quite a lot of fun to ride.

There are also other things you can do to get more power from the 1000, and really take advantage of it's more radical cam profiles. Randakk's IDF40 carb setup is a great example of that, seeing a wheel horsepower increase of 8.25, and torque of 3lb-ft, and it saw increases across the whole rev range over the stock carbs. In simple math, accounting for the roughly 25% driveline loss of these bikes, that's 90hp at the crank on an otherwise stock engine. I think with some good head porting and a good induction system, the 1000 engines could come darn close to 100hp in naturally aspirated form without bumping the compression or doing anything else too radical besides some head work. Just an assumption, but a fair one.
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