My sidecar subframe & attachments

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heraldhamster
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#16

Post by heraldhamster »

cbrianroll wrote:Great read...I want a side car, cant seem to find one near me that's in the budget. Id like to build one...have plans somewhere. I've read alot of your posts here and the cx500 forum's, it's nice to put a face to the name!
I used to know a guy who would deliver a sidecar to members if they found one on craigslist somewhere outside their neighborhood.

https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9321

but that one time turned into such a hassle...

it's been 10 years ago! wow.
sorta bulldogged custom 1978 GL1000 - "geekster"
full Vetter dress 1979 GL1000 - "Barge" (currently down)
1986 1200 Aspencade - "Heart of Gold" - daily rider
1990 1500 Aspencade - It's ALIVE! but very, very naked. not in a good way.
1978 for $100 - project in worx
1978 from a previous member here - taking up space
my original '79 bought in '91 - replacing engine (eventually, maybe someday)

H2G2=42

A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity. ~ Robert A. Heinlein

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#17

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I remember that :oldies :oldies :oldies
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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Easter
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#18

Post by Easter »

Great info, thanks.
Bikes at present:

83 XL 600r with a 2004 XR650L engine
And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
83 GL in process :IDTS:
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#19

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Was I supposed to take more pics of something while re-attaching the bike & sidecar?
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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BusaRider
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#20

Post by BusaRider »

Funny this thread came up. Good info. I was having a little pull to the right with my hack, even after the rules had been followed. I added a little bit of inner toe to the hack wheel and said pull is gone. I'm also running low air pressure in the hack tire as suspension is about non existent in it. Also, my hack mounts were welded to the frame in 8/1989. Their still holding up well. It's better to clamp but I mention it as it's not a deal breaker in my eyes. My bottom 2 mounts are welded and top 2 are clamped just to clarify.
'81 GL1100 - Café with a Twist * 1990 Suzuki GSXR-1100
2000 Triumph Speed Triple * 2016 BMW F800GS
2013 BMW S1000RR * 2017 Harley Davidson Heritage Classic
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#21

Post by Sidecar Bob »

This chart might be helpful to some who read this thread
Sidecar Alignment.jpg
Sidecar Alignment.jpg (33.18 KiB) Viewed 187 times
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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BusaRider
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#22

Post by BusaRider »

That chart is awesome. Do you have any steering damper info....ie geometry etc?
'81 GL1100 - Café with a Twist * 1990 Suzuki GSXR-1100
2000 Triumph Speed Triple * 2016 BMW F800GS
2013 BMW S1000RR * 2017 Harley Davidson Heritage Classic
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#23

Post by Sidecar Bob »

All sidecar outfits "wobble" (= handlebar oscillation) to some degree or other at about 40 Km/h (25 MPH) but machines with greater trail wobble more. It has been my experience that if the bike's trail is about 100mm (4") or less the wobble can be dealt with by just not driving at the specific speed that it happens at except when accelerating or decelerating past that speed and making sure both hands are on the bars when you accel or decel through the wobble point.

Unfortunately a stock GL1100 has 135mm (5.3" ) of trail and mine had 2" overlength forks so I had a hard time taming it at first. I adjusted the leanout all over the place, raised the forks in the clamps, replaced the wheel and swingarm bearings, increased the pressure in the shocks, messed with the toe in and tried just about everything else I could think of with minimal improvements and in the end I found 2 things that made a significant difference:
1) Tires: I had Kenda K673 Kruz tires on it when I added the sidecar. These were the best handling tires I ever tried on it for 2 wheel use, largely because the front has a triangular cross section which makes it lean as easily as a narrower tire yet have a larger contact patch when leaned. But I suspect that that triangular section contributed significantly to the very bad wobble because it decreased significantly when I changed to a Duro HF308.
2) I broke down and added an inexpensive steering damper that I found on eBay and that brought the wobble to less than I was used to on my CX650E based outfit with 100mm of trail.

But that was only half the battle because the large trail (which makes a 2 wheeled GL1100 very stable at speed) made it very hard to steer at anything more than a few Km/h. I played around with a bunch of ideas for reducing the trail but most of them were either technically challenging (like modifying an upper triple clamp) or very expensive (a leading link front end would have cost more than I spent for the whole bike or the sidecar). Eventually I decided that replacing the forks with ones that had the axle in front of the tubes instead of in line with them would be the cheapest & easiest way to reduce the trail so I did that and now it steers as easily as the 650
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49627
Image
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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BusaRider
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#24

Post by BusaRider »

I get a little wobble. I was wondering if a damper would help with that and where to mount it angles etc.....
'81 GL1100 - Café with a Twist * 1990 Suzuki GSXR-1100
2000 Triumph Speed Triple * 2016 BMW F800GS
2013 BMW S1000RR * 2017 Harley Davidson Heritage Classic
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#25

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Doug Bingham (one of the greatest sidecar experts of all time) recommended using a "shimmy damper" from a VW beetle
http://sidestrider.com/steering.htm

Here's my steering damper
Steering damper 1.JPG
Steering damper 1.JPG (99.43 KiB) Viewed 169 times
The attachment to the frame is a small muffler clamp with a piece of coupling nut with the threads drilled out brazed onto the saddle
Steering damper 2.JPG
Steering damper 2.JPG (85.13 KiB) Viewed 169 times
It is attached to the stanchion with a fork stanchion clamp
Steering damper 3.JPG
Steering damper 3.JPG (67.97 KiB) Viewed 169 times
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
User avatar
Sidecar Bob
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Re: My sidecar subframe & attachments

#26

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I could have lived with the slight bit of wobble that Eccles (CX650E based winter machine) had but after driving the 'Wing with the damper I became spoiled and decided I wanted a friction type damper for the 650. After a bit of research I found this thread on triumphrat that described installing a Farley & Ace steering damper on a modern Triumph. It included these pics:
Farley+Ace damper.jpg
Farley+Ace damper.jpg (70.11 KiB) Viewed 165 times
I used a spare tire nut from a car we used to have years ago for the adjustment knob. Since the knob was already tapped for 5/16" UNC, all I had to do was screw it on to the threaded rod, add add a jam nut so it wouldn't turn on the rod and find that blue plastic piece to plug the hole

My bike's top nut was already open on top so instead of trying to machine it and the knob to match, I found a hat shaped washer that fit the threaded rod and made it snug inside the steering stem by adding a bit of rubber tubing. The bushing at the bottom is a rubber piece from the scrap bin.
Steering Damper Knob.jpg
Steering Damper Knob.jpg (127.62 KiB) Viewed 165 times
I found teflon Penn fishing reel drag washers (part #56T-714) on eBay that were the perfect size to work with the stainless fender washers I had on hand.
I made my version of the "frame plate" by brazing one of those SS fender washers on either side of a piece of 1/8 x 3/4" steel, centred over a 3/8" hole and anchored the other end of it to the fairing bracket with a clamp. For the "lower nut stop" I brazed a nut onto another piece of that steel (also centred over a 3/8" hole) and bent it into a "Z" shape so that the free end would engage with the bottom of the lower triple clamp. Here it is assembled with 2 of the teflon washers sandwiched between the stainless washers that are brazed on and ones that are free to turn and because it would be possible to loosen it too far and have parts fall off I added a nut & locknut to the lower end of the threaded rod.
Steering Damper from below.jpg
Steering Damper from below.jpg (138 KiB) Viewed 165 times
This worked very well but after a couple of longer than normal trips on Eccles the next spring I realized that it had a serious problem with ergonomics. Comparing it to the 'Wing I realized that all it needed was 2" handlebar risers (my knees no longer ache after 3/4 hour on it) but they put the centre of the handlebars right where the knob was so I had to replace it with something smaller. I modified the end of the threaded rod to accept an old faucet handle; It works OK but I only need to adjust it when it has been apart and its hard to turn that small knob so I'll probably eventually weld a nut on so I can adjust it with a wrench.
Risers Eccles 6 Oct 2012.jpg
Risers Eccles 6 Oct 2012.jpg (88.28 KiB) Viewed 165 times
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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