The NGW Project Bike. Carburetor rebuild

This Is Strictly For The "How To" Sticky's

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octane
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#46

Post by octane »

Thank you very much Dagvald for your kind words.
I'm glad if this thread can be of assistance to you.
I'm not a super mechanic, I just take my time to be thorough.

Yours is a 79, right?!
So please note that there will be some small differences,
and please check that the jets are the correct ones for
the carb number stamped on your carbs.

...and most importantly; read Randakks site.

Best of luck with the carb job!

Regards
Octane.
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#47

Post by octane »

This baby needs to breathe feeeeely

..cut the air-filter housing and lid back to
bare essentials:

Image


mmmm: I think this, combined with the KN filter
will induce a lot more air
and
I'll have a straight through muffler set-up
so
maybe I'll need to experiment with the carb jetting.


BTW; tested it on my daily ride:

MOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUHHHHH

glorious sound!
Da' Supercharged Bulldog

Image

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but when there is nothing left to take away"

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#48

Post by Whiskerfish »

Lars

I was led to believe that the reason the intake is shaped the way it is with the tube etc. was to prevent the ingestion of hot air from the radiator/ engine area. Don't you think that this open filter design will create problems if it starts cycling hot air into the plenumn??
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#49

Post by octane »

Whiskerfish wrote:Lars

I was led to believe that the reason the intake is shaped the way it is with the tube etc. was to prevent the ingestion of hot air from the radiator/ engine area.
That sounds reasonable, and it certainly would
explain that trunk thingy.
Don't you think that this open filter design will create problems if it starts cycling hot air into the plenumn??
I couldn't tell.-)
Maybe I can...later, when this thing is running.
I understand the whole thing about hot air being "thinner"
(less dense) and how that will influence the mixture,
but the heat shield behind the fan does have a "roof"
that keeps the hot air from moving up--->to the filter.

The filter is behind and above the shield, so I think/hope
the influence will be negligible.
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Started my rebuild

#50

Post by Dagvald »

Hi Octane and All,

I've started my rebuild. I've only run into one snag so far. First the background: After adjusting valves, doing the "quicky" carb clean ( filling bowls with cleaner overnight) and changing a couple of bad plug wires/boots. The bike was still backfiring, surging and seemed down on power. Also I did a balance with a nice set of vaccuum gauges that I got on Ebay. BTW, I also flushed the radiator, rebuilt the master cylinder, lubed the control cables and a bunch of other fiddly stuff - and changed the timing belts.

It wasn't running on 2 & 4 at idle. No response to adjusting mixture screws on those cyl's and no RPM drop by pulling the spark boot at idle. Just about this time my Randakk's kit arrived and this wonderful posting of Octane's appeared.

When I got the bike it REEKed of rotten gas. I figure it had been sitting on the kickstand for months on end and 2 & 4 got the worst of it. So the other night I cleaned off my workbench, got a bunch of spray can cleaners and pulled the carbs. I decided to open up #4 first and see what was what. It wasn't as full of crud as the Octane's carbs but still pretty dirty, with all the rubber plugs and O-rings turned to mush. Everything with fine until I got to the slow jet: the suspected culprit! I doused it with WD-40 penetrant and carefully selected a "jeweler's" screw driver that fit the screw slot perfectly. This screwdriver has a very thin handle which only allows "finger-tip" torque so I applied a very small pair of vise-grips. It released very easily. I started to turn it out. And turned and turned and turned. But it stayed in there. I tried shaking it upside down and blasting it with air. No luck, it stays in the tube. Then I noticed if i screwed it back in, the threads would grab nicely and it would tighten up after about a 1 -1/2 turns. Now I'm figuring that I must have broken the jet in the middle of the the threads. If press down lightly while un-screwing I can feel a "bumpity-bump" as if there's an irregularity there. So I think it must be broken.

Yikes, what should I do? I pulled a strand of thin SST wire from a wire brush and poked it through the jet. Also, I've been squirting carb cleaner and comp air every way I can think of to try to make sure the circuit is clear. I'm hoping I can just leave it in there and see what happens.

I found some of the PB Blaster at the Auto Parts store and I'll try that if any of the others seem stuck.
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PUmped up Plenum

#51

Post by Dagvald »

I've been thinking about that plenum too. But it never did occur to me to do what Octane did. I don't know if the hot air above the engine would be any more of an issue than it would with the stock plenum. It sure looks as though it would breathe better!

Here's what I though about the plenum:

Cut off the existing intake tube and weld a sheet metal patch over the hole.
Make two new intakes tubes aimed towards the front on each side. For instance on the right the tube would aim toward the area above the radiator cap. On my '79 the false tank has a flattish area facing the wind on the front and covering the radiator cap area. This is where a "RAM-AIR" scoop could be fabricated out of fiberglass or sheet metal. It would transition from a largest practical cross-section down to the diameter of the intake tube on the plenum. Then connect the scoops to the tubes with some flexi hose that would allow you to open the false tank sides when you released the clamps at the plenum tubes.

You could add some nasty little cowlings to help it gulp air at speed. You'd
surely need bigger main jets for this to work. Just imagine the extra power when passing cars on the highway!
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#52

Post by docc »

My GL airbox has been de-snorkeled and intake area enlarged for years. I was going to do the tubes to bring cooler air in. The area where the frame meets the faux tank..is quite flat and small and looked to be choking the flow.

I live in one of the hottest areas..southern Arizona. The bike perfroms excellent..and not much different than cooler (although all bikes like cooler weather). I live at 2800ft..at the base of a 10,000 ft mountain I rdie a lot. Summer..heat..doesn't seem to make a difference with the snorkel gone.

I still may do the tubes..not for ram air as that would only add at over 100mph or so..just to experiment with the inlets. I think a second set of side panels..with cut outs for the inles might be how I'll try.

The tubes though would cut back that nice ...Mooooooooooo-aaannnnn...

Howling like the devils indigestion..
..oh no..he's not here..he's out riding...again...

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'76 GL cafe (owned since new)
'02 VTX 1800C
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#53

Post by octane »

octane wrote: I think this, combined with the KN filter
will induce a lot more air
and
I'll have a straight through muffler set-up
so
maybe I'll need to experiment with the carb jetting.

The carbs are a bit different from you guys carbs
as they are "B" (european spec) but originally they
run 65/125 primary/secondary fuel jets.

Conventional wisdom has it that you should go up in
fuel jet size after such modification.
I have a Clymer that tells to
"increase the main jet one size" (that would be from 65 to 70 in my case)
when installing a free flow exhaust.

The KN filter instruction is a bit ambigious
but basicly recommends going up 5 notches (like: from 125 to 130)
for both primary and main fuel jet.

so I've drilled my 65/125 up to 70/129 (the drill checked out to be 129).

It's a shot in the dark....but we'll see how it works.
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#54

Post by ffwd »

man! that's impressive!!!
I'm not gonna do that now,since my time is limited(i normaly live in Romania,but now i'm in the Netherlands,and i"ve bought the bike here. It has to run,so I can ride it back home crossy.gif ),but i want to do that. also my carbs don't look that bad.
Octane,I don't think we can be gratefull enough for all the documents you provide. I suppose you don't mind if i'll use some of your tricks.
thanks a lot!
i wanna go fast......and smooth:)
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wow and WOW !!

#55

Post by dplant »

:-D Octane and all,

What more can be said/shown with Naked Carb Rebuild? 'Cept another Thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou

My 1200 wouldn't run without the "choke" partially on so you know how valuable this "carb rebuild pictorial" is to me. Thanks again ...

My dream of creating a "naked" Wing is underway. Found a 1984 GL1200 Aspencade that was pretty cherry but, had sat in a garage for 3 years with out being started. Difficult to "strip" her but,,, did.

BTY, what'cha do with the Aspy "junk"? eBay? My Aspy takeoffs are nearly perfect. Lawyer owned it and lost interest in riding.

FYI: I've some "low dollar" customizing tricks that I've not seen yet. I'd share with pix, but I'm too computer dumb to figure out how to post pix on the NW site. Pix Post Directions Please ?

I'll tease you to help me with the pix ...

Home built mufflers. Inch and a quarter EMT tubing with baffling washers welded inside for backpressure.

Blood red powder coated wheels. ( most expensive mod on bike )

Cruiser Bicycle fenders w/ 1/2x1/8 super strong braces

Cruiser Bicycle Handlebars

No fake'ie gas tank, even Naked there

Two Baja search light headlights ... low and high beam

Custom Led tail light/turn signals

Bicycle rear view mirrors

Med solo seat with Sm solo seat for the _itch on the back

Pulled out the original wiring harness and now rewiring

Pix? Got'em
Again? Don't know how to post

8) IndianaDave
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#56

Post by Jester »

Look in the "Pit Stop" section. There are lots of tips and how to's for posting pics.

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Re: wow and WOW !!

#57

Post by ffwd »

dplant wrote::-D Octane and all,

What more can be said/shown with Naked Carb Rebuild? 'Cept another Thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou

My 1200 wouldn't run without the "choke" partially on so you know how valuable this "carb rebuild pictorial" is to me. Thanks again ...

My dream of creating a "naked" Wing is underway. Found a 1984 GL1200 Aspencade that was pretty cherry but, had sat in a garage for 3 years with out being started. Difficult to "strip" her but,,, did.

BTY, what'cha do with the Aspy "junk"? eBay? My Aspy takeoffs are nearly perfect. Lawyer owned it and lost interest in riding.

FYI: I've some "low dollar" customizing tricks that I've not seen yet. I'd share with pix, but I'm too computer dumb to figure out how to post pix on the NW site. Pix Post Directions Please ?

I'll tease you to help me with the pix ...

Home built mufflers. Inch and a quarter EMT tubing with baffling washers welded inside for backpressure.

Blood red powder coated wheels. ( most expensive mod on bike )

Cruiser Bicycle fenders w/ 1/2x1/8 super strong braces

Cruiser Bicycle Handlebars

No fake'ie gas tank, even Naked there

Two Baja search light headlights ... low and high beam

Custom Led tail light/turn signals

Bicycle rear view mirrors

Med solo seat with Sm solo seat for the _itch on the back

Pulled out the original wiring harness and now rewiring

Pix? Got'em
Again? Don't know how to post

8) IndianaDave

hey! I would like to see pics of your bike. I'm also in process of buiding one,and it seems we've got some common ideeas.please post pics
I'm looking forward to see them.
i wanna go fast......and smooth:)
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Thanks ...

#58

Post by dplant »

:-D Jester and ffwd,

Thanks for the pix tips. Give me a couple daze. Busy weekend.

IndianaGuy 8)
dplant
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Bycycle handlebars

#59

Post by Levi »

Be careful with those bicycle handle bars. Most bicycle bars are made with tubing with a smaller wall thickness.

hit a bump hard enough with your arms locked and they will fold up on you :(
Levi
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#60

Post by Alley Kat »

Just to add:

My carbs were ok-ish inside, float heights spot on, float needles looked good (though have had that before but they leaked nonetheless). So why the dramatic flooding... Turns out one float pin was very slightlty out of true, just at one end. It stopped the float swinging free when the last couple of mm went into the post.
So just to say, check the floats spin on the pins. I cleaned my pins with a flat jewellers file, just wiping not actually filing as such. And ran a small drill bit through the float hinge, smaller than the hole, not to drill the thing out but just to gently 'pull' and clean out the insides a little.

I also hammered my float pin flat... loads of very tiny gentle taps while rotating it on a flat surface. I know you can get new ones which would be ideal, but I was pushed for time and wanted to do the thing there & then.

To get the pins in/out I used a little punch made from about 4" of 5mm steel rod ground to a point; with the teeniest little flat on the point. The point makes sure you hit pin and not the post; loads of really light gentle taps on the end of the rod sees them out no prob. The other end of the rod is flat, so makes a nice miniscule 'hammer' for starting them into the posts easily.
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