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'79 Wing and a Prayer

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rcmatt007
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#121

Post by rcmatt007 »

what I have found is once cleaned, the original coating is also gone. Might even try phosphoric acid as it coats sort of like anodizing Aluminum
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" not ready for prime time,
79 project, finished,
'86 1200 (Beth's) with motorvation sidecar, July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#122

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

I've read about phosphoric acid leaving a coating. Perhaps that's a path.

I've shifted attention back to the motor while I sort out my way forward on the tank. My son and I found a little time together, and he helped me get the motor off the bench and into the frame.
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I'm a bit further along than the photos show, but she's a good ways off from putting in fluids and seeing if she'll fire up. Carbs need to go on, as does the radiator.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#123

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Get busy with work, and a month goes by with no update on a bike project.

Here goes:
  • I slid the carbs in, bolted them down, and bolted up the radiator a couple weekends ago. No fluids at that point, so no effort at starting the bike.
  • Last weekend I dropped in some inexpensive 10w40 conventional oil and a bit of ATF for the "start after a long layup" procedure. I didn't have distilled water handy, so the bike sat until this weekend.
  • I sourced distilled water on Saturday morning - btw, our local stores always seem to be out of it, and Ace had just 2 gallons on the shelf. I only needed one.
  • As the bottoms of the mufflers are rotted out (so badly, I couldn't weld mig weld them up), I removed them from the headers (which are good, thankfully) and bolted them to the heads.
  • As soon as I filled the radiator with water, problems started. I was leaking water from on top of the motor AND down by the water pump area. Quick, drain the water and wipe up the mess!
  • I had to move the carbs back and unbolt the shroud behind the radiator to sort out one of the leaks- thankfully, there's no gas tank to prevent that move.
  • Damn me! I forgot to swap out the little rubber o-ring when I bolted the coolant lines down to the motor. (My Vesrah kit had it waiting for me, so I slapped in a freshie.
  • Damn me - again! I failed to swap out the rubber gasket on the bottom of the motor, where the radiator connects up to the water pump. Again, Vesrah had it.
  • I reassembled all the bits and put the water back in. No leaks! But by then it was a bit late in the day for motorcycle play, as I had other chores in store.
  • This morning, though, I got back on it.
I hooked up our IV drip fuel reservoir to the fuel pump, pulled back the choke, and crossed my fingers - all while holding the throttle and reaching around to connect my ignition wires.

I'll be damned! After a few quick cranks, she fired right up and started running like a champ. But then fuel started dripping off the pump. Shut her down, mop it up.

I tightened down the outlet hose clamp and tried again. No fuel leak. Whew!

I restarted and didn't have to play with the throttle, tweak the choke, or fuss at all to keep her running.

I needed to do was make sure my tiny pint-sized IV reservoir didn't run dry.

She smoked a bit at first, but not really that much. And with just the headers, everyone in the neighborhood could tell that another bike had come to life at my house.

The fan kicked on after a while. I knew it worked, but I didn't really know if the fan switch worked. It's nice that it does. Here's one photo, with a blurry fan running.
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There's not really anything to see when the motor is running - if it's a photo or if there's no sound.

No leaks or drips - oil, water, whatever. So that's good.

I ran her up around 3-4k a bit, working the oil around and hopefully cleaning some old gunk hanging out in there, and I shut her down and did a little happy dance. This bike is alive again.

A couple hours later, I drained the oil and the distilled water, refilled with good motor oil and coolant, and started her up again. Maybe 2 cranks and she's off to the races.

I can now comfortably begin putting more of the bike back together. I'll solder up the 3 yellow wires and see how the charging system is working. I think my next moves involve closer work on the electrical, perhaps followed by a rebuild of the rear brake system.

And I'll feel good about throwing $ at parts I need, which has been a bit of an issue without a running motor.

And I managed to source a GL1000 gas tank in vastly better shape than the one I had, which is a blessing. I nabbed it for about $125, which was not bad given the condition. It didn't come with a cap, but I have a serviceable one. I can pop that in when I'm ready.

I can now see my way a path to riding this bike come next May.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#124

Post by rcmatt007 »

Good news
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" not ready for prime time,
79 project, finished,
'86 1200 (Beth's) with motorvation sidecar, July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#125

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Another month goes by with nothing but crickets on this slow build. I've been delinquent in updates.

My excuses: Work and a 10-day trip to Argentina, where 125cc Suzukis are everywhere in Buenos Aires and the riders are nuts. I mean nuts.

I've been assembling bits I'll need for this project now that the motor fires to life.
  • Picked up some NOS Sportster mufflers, as my original mufflers are too far gone for me to patch. They're not really mounted, but they're on well enough to muffle the headers. The good news there is that I no longer need hearing protection when running the bike in the shed. Protection is still a great idea, of course.
  • Nabbed a right throttle control unit to replace my broken one.
  • Scored a rear rotor to replace the horribly pitted one that came with the bike.
'
  • I even found an old left side cover to match the right one that came with the bike. It's not the 78/79 style, but neither is the one on the bike. I'm pretty comfortable sporting the earlier look and have a plan for securing them.
I thought I was making slow, steady progress, especially when I hooked up the right controls, pushed the button, and the motor turned over.

Alas, somewhere in the time between a sweet-running motor back in September and the last couple weeks, the motor won't run well at all.

I was thinking there was something amiss with my wiring, as I sensed some correlation (or mere coincidence?) between switching the right controls and the horribly running bike. I've also been thinking it has to do with that aftermarket relay through which the old starter wire was running. But I keep looking at it and cannot imagine how/why that could be the issue.

Today I reinstalled the old controls and disconnected the new stuff. It meant hotwiring again to start, but that's fine. Same bad running bike. Not that I thought it'd help, but I put in a new battery as I'm really nursing a battery that needs to be put out to pasture and recycled. No change.

I'm living what I think (hope?) is the hard lesson of what can happen if you don't use a fuel filter even when running off a clear plastic external fuel drip. It's hard to hope for it, but I'm now hoping I've developed clogged idle jets.

The bike won't start without ether - though it tries to - and I've really got to stay on the throttle to keep her above 2k if she's not going to die. It gets a bit better at higher RPMs, I think. It just sounds bad, like it's not running on all cylinders, like the firing order is off, or something else. All 4 pipes are warming up at roughly the same time; no cold intakes.

I pulled the carbs and will clean things out again, throw a filter in to prevent a repeat of what I hope is a simple case of clogged jets, cross my fingers, genuflect, and hope it's just that.

I'm certain many here know of this frustration.

On a super positive note, temps were in the 60s today with gorgeous sunny skies. After an hour futzing with wiring and deciding the carbs needed to come out, I climbed on the Blue Phoenix for a fun 90-minute cruise through the rolling hills and back-road twisties of southern Maine.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#126

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

OK. I'm back where I thought I was about 5 weeks ago: This project GL1000 starts, runs, revs, and comes off throttle. That's truly good news.

First, I'm really pleased that I did NOT install the fuel tank I found back in September. It's just so much easier to pull the carbs, reinstall, futz with throttle cables, etc. without that piece of metal right where a little wiggle room would be a good thing. I'm filing that away for future projects. Tank removal is easy if you need pull the rear master, wheel, brakes, and battery tray. And removing it makes other things just that much easier.

It took me parts of a couple hours over each of a couple weekends, plus a little evening quality time during the week, but this morning I put the carbs back together - for the second time.
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OK, the second-and-a-half time because I tried a "quickie" pull the carbs, drop the bowls, clean a couple jets, and reinstall because... Not sure, but I was hoping to take the super shortcut. I did find some crap in #2's bowl and a clogged jet as well. I hoped for "problem solved" and buttoned 'er up. No bueno on that one, and I think the bike was even worse.

So I got more serious, went back out for more carb cleaner, and started in on a more serious cleaning. Not wanting to get overly ambitious, rush, and confuse some things, I set out for a one-week turnaround. I think I succeeded on that timeline.

I set up a filter between my fuel source and pump to reduce the chance I'll add crap to the carbs again.

And with no gas tank to limit elbow room, the rack slid right in nearly as easily as a tray of Tollhouse Cookies going into the oven.
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I bolted her down, hooked up the fuel lines, and she started up after a bit of cranking to move fuel into the bowls. I had a few issues with her stalling when giving her lots of throttle - from idle to 3500, or thereabouts. And the carbs really do need to be adjusted and synched for things to be right. I noticed the air mixture screws are all about 1/2 or 3/4 turn out from bottom. I kept them there, not wanting to introduce additional, new reasons for the bike not to run. I'm pretty sure they need to be out about another turn as a starting point for some tuning.

I don't have mufflers securely bolted on, an air cleaner, etc. I'm not going to sync the carbs until those bits are sorted out.

Once warm, though, she seemed to run pretty well. She idled reliably, as before. There wasn't notable hesitation/bogging/lag when pulling the throttle hard from idle, or from idle to 4k. She ran up above 5k just fine. And the temp gently rose, as expected.
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I do have a question: There's a vacuum line that runs from the top of the carb. I think it runs down to the #1 carb bowl - or so it would seem. For the life of me, I cannot recall where it was when I first pulled the carbs about a year ago. I've got it plugged with a screw for now.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#127

Post by ritalz »

A little trick that comes in handy is to route the throttle cables on the outside of the frame. that allows the carbs to slide out far enough to remove the cable ends from the bell crank. I'm not thrilled with pulling the tank unless absolutely necessary.
Al

1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter' Sold
1985 Goldwing Interstate 'NCC-1985' sold
2003 Goldwing New To Me 1800
1981 Silverwing Sold
1982 Goldeing Project Sold
1981 Goldwing Parted Out
1983 Goldwing Project Sold
1984 Goldwing New Project
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#128

Post by Lucien Harpress »

That vacuum line to carb 1 is for the air cutoff valve on the top front of the plenum. All that does (if you're not already aware) is prevent popping through the exhaust during deceleration. I've never had a problem with it personally, but lots of guys block it off to no ill effect. Mostly to eliminate potential vacuum leaks. There's a couple threads floating around here about it.

Not messing with the idle mix screws for now to eliminate variables is good, but once you get there here was my experience. The idle mix screws on these bikes don't seem to do a whole lot, honestly. I was told to set them at 3 turns out and leave them. It's what I did, and it's seemed to work just fine. Just some food for thought once you get to that point.

It's looking good!
1997 Valkyrie- Light Cutomization, but Too Busy Riding
1980 KZ1300- Bike's Haunted
1976 GL1000 (Yellow)- It Runs (Poorly) and Doesn't Leak (Mostly)
1974 Velosolex 3800- Better Than Walking
1972 CB750- Broke the Chain And Ate the Motor
1969 CT90- The Most Fun You Can Have on 90ccs.
1965 CA77 Dream- Needs a Full Teardown, but Complete

All advice I give is only valid until an expert corrects me.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#129

Post by rcmatt007 »

on my Ltd a PO had set them at closed.... but that is because the floats were so off the bike was sort of flooding all the time. I think someone told me to set them at about 1.5.... on cars we usually started around 3/4
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" not ready for prime time,
79 project, finished,
'86 1200 (Beth's) with motorvation sidecar, July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#130

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Lucien Harpress wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:02 pm That vacuum line to carb 1 is for the air cutoff valve on the top front of the plenum. All that does (if you're not already aware) is prevent popping through the exhaust during deceleration. I've never had a problem with it personally, but lots of guys block it off to no ill effect. Mostly to eliminate potential vacuum leaks. There's a couple threads floating around here about it.
OK. I have the hose running to the air cutoff, with it plugged at the other end. I'll hook it up to the bottom of carb 1, where I thought it probably belonged. I'm a long way from worrying about exhaust pops while decelerating.
ritalz wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:14 pm I'm not thrilled with pulling the tank unless absolutely necessary.
Pulling the tank is a pain, but it had to come out in this situation because it needed a serious cleaning. And then it needed to. be replaced, as some pretty serious holes opened up in the cleaning process. Mainly, I'm liking the idea of keeping it out until I'm closer to ready to button up the rear end, and I'm noticing all the room to manipulate carbs with the tank out.
rcmatt007 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:49 pm on my Ltd a PO had set them at closed.... but that is because the floats were so off the bike was sort of flooding all the time. I think someone told me to set them at about 1.5.... on cars we usually started around 3/4
I'll work on the carb adjustments in about 4 months, I imagine. There's a lot to do before I start worrying too much about dialing in the carbs.

Today I made some fun, pretty easy progress separating the Vetter wiring from the OEM. I think I've got the key bits working as expected: power to horn on press, headlight low/hi (and off when starter is engaged), left/right signals. I didn't rip out the two auxiliary power leads that likely went to the radio and lighter on the Vetter.

While I didn't snip it all back to stock, I cut it way back and marked things up. I think I removed about 10-15 feet of wire and 10 feet of electrical tape, all while getting a better sense of what I need and what I don't. I'm calling that part good for now.
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Next up, I think: rear brake rebuild. (Fronts will be determined by my success trying to mount GL1100 forks and triple tree on the bike.)
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#131

Post by pidjones »

Looking better. May I suggest a not fun exercise of taking a rag and your favorite solvent (I like isopropyl alcohol) and clean those wires of the accumulated goo and dirt? It will make future work nicer and more accurate. The white stripe on some Honda wiring can easily be masked by build-up on the insulator.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - in sad shape
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#132

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Pidjones: Right on. Mostly, I'm trying to get things working, but with more electrical sorted and wires hanging all out now's probably the time. My photos today only confirm that the bike has 40+ years of grime still hanging onto the wiring

I took my eye off the rear caliper for a minute to focus on my long-awaited GL1100 fork swap attempt. The result is perhaps my most interesting post to date on this build, even if it's a pretty basic mod.

Borrowing from Dangeruss' well-documented approach that put a 1200 front end on a 1000, I started in on the mods to a GL1100 triple tree. It's looking like a pretty straightforward swap, with less modification required than a 1200 swap.
Removing the GL1000 Triple
Removing the GL1000 Triple
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The top of the triple for the GL1000 and GL1100 are nearly identical, with some possible minor issues I may encounter that involve the underside and the ignition switch. It's too soon to be sure it'll be a problem - and I think it won't be - but there's a little question mark.
GL1100 top on left; GL1000 top on right. The ignition switch bolted right on.
GL1100 top on left; GL1000 top on right. The ignition switch bolted right on.
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As with the 1200 triple, the 1100 lower has a different set up for the stops. I needed to grind down the stop (at the front center) on the 1100 lower and establish some posts to the sides to make use of the arrangement for the GL1000 frame. Dangeruss had the same basic challenge.

The GL1000 bottom is on the left in the photo below; the GL1100 (modified) is on the right. I've drilled holes to the left/right of the bearings and tapped them for M7 1.0 bolts. Once it's all mocked up and working, I'll weld them at the bottom to ensure they won't back out.
GL1000 lower on left; GL1100 lower on right, with some mods.
GL1000 lower on left; GL1100 lower on right, with some mods.
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Here's another shot of the modified GL1100 lower.
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Unfortunately, I did not cut away enough of the GL1100 stop mechanism, so it's rubbing against a bit of excess weld just below the stop mechanism on the GL1000 frame. I could probably grind down that weld just a bit, but I'm going to work the GL1100 lower a bit more.

The photo below shows the issue pretty clearly. I'm probably 2-3mm too high to safely clear things.
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Obviously, this is a pretty simple modification. I had already tested bolting up the gauges to the GL1100 top, and they'll fit with no mods. (Dangeruss reported needing to mod the GL1200 top a bit to accept the GL1000 bracket.)

I've got an '83 front end with beefier forks, an integrated fork brace and the TRAC anti-dive. And I have two-pot calipers from an '82 that I can bolt onto the '83. I should be able to get more stability up front, as well as improved braking over the original. I'll stick with the original rear brake, which is a two-piston rig.

In other news: This past weekend, for some reason I just noticed that the '70s Comstars are bare metal, while the '80s have a black treatment/paint, with bare metal. The easy swap for me is to run the '82 Comstar up front to bolt onto the GL1100 front end. I don't like the idea of wheels that are different colors. But I'm thinking it'd be quite the project to strip the paint (anodized aluminum?) off that Comstar. One snowy day, perhaps I'll pick at one of those wheels and see what might flake off.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#133

Post by pidjones »

If Honda's wheel paint is anything like Yamaha's, you would be well served with vapor or sand blasting the wheels. BTW, take a look at some old Triumph front ends that use similar fork stops. They often have bent studs (and resulting dented tanks). Maybe consider going bigger with yours.
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
Ex 2006 GL1800 - the Black Pearl SOLD! to make room for:
2021 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited Dark Chalk Metallic
1975 Red GL1000 project - ex Pistol Pete project
1972 Triumph T150V Trident rescue - in sad shape
1976 Yamaha RD400c
1978 GL1000 with '75 engine - the Hunley
Ex 1978 GL1000
Ex 1979 GL1000
Ex '79 CB750F rat bike
Ex '86 SEi
Ex '77 GL1000
Ex '76 RD400
Ex '72 Penton 125 set up for flat track
Ex '73 RD250
Ex '68 TR6C - chopped
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#134

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

I briefly thought the M7 might be a bit smallish. It's not small, really, but it's also not beefy stout. Easy enough to go bigger now; harder to do later. I think I can get the hole bigger without eating into the side of the lower. I can see that as a possible issue.

Maybe I roll with the black/aluminum front wheel. Maybe I find a sand blaster to strip the wheel. I'll meditate a bit.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our Winter '21 GL1100I gone naked.
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