'79 Wing and a Prayer

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Dirt Road Cowboy
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#196

Post by Dirt Road Cowboy »

I like the way you used the older style side covers. Did you have to weld in new brackets at the bottom?

Good looking bike.
78 GL1000

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CYBORG
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#197

Post by CYBORG »

I like what you have done, and your plans. most important , to me, is the praise from your son
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#198

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Thanks!

No welding to manage the repositioning of side cover mounts. I just used some metal, drilled holes in it, and affixed some bolts so I could screw on the nuts. I don't recall right now, but I might have drilled a hole in the little web that functions as the mount for the rear master. On the left side, I think I went right into the original mount hole. It was pretty easy.

I had one of the older side panels already, though it had a hole drilled in it and it was ziptied to the bike. The 78/9 panels are hard to come by. I sourced an early left panel with broken tabs to make that side work.

I like the more bulbous look of the older ones. For this bike, I think they look a bit like supersized CB550F side panels - which is sort of what the color is supposed to evoke. It's no CB550, of course.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet (surf bike)
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1979 GL1000 - A Steel Horse with No Name (one owner, original paperwork, Vetter-ed up)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex

Active Project(s)
FrankenWing - 1980 GL1100 motor in 1982 or 1983 frame (still deciding)

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#199

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Lesson for me: Don't play swap shop with your good carb rack to try to bring a long-dormant GL back to life. What I expected to be a one- or two-day loss of Ginger Lynn has become a multi-week headache.

After thoroughly crapping up a reliable clean rack that had just taken me out to Laconia and back without incident, I have yet to adequately return Ginger to the machine she was just a month ago. I'm near to cracking back into the rack for yet another pass.

What I have seem like symptoms of a vacuum leak - or maybe some idle-jet funny business.

I'm even afraid to post to the Tech Discussion, as I sorta know the half dozen key possibilities.

Here goes:
  • Went through carbs again before mounting rack. Fired right up. Happiness. Found stumbling up near redline. Added seafoam to the tank. Rechecked sync and the mix screws (3 turns). I suspected that the floats were off. Yup. Not sure why, but I botched measurements at some point in the last month. It happens. Pulled rack, opened her up, got the floats dialed in.
  • Fires right up. Plenty of power all the way to redline. Smooth as all get out from 3k up, and probably from above 2k or so. Joy at WOT.
  • She's tough at launch, as in really finicky. I have to give more throttle just to avoid a stall, which isn't good for slow-speed maneuvers or hard rights from a stop. I dial up the idle a bit. It seems to sorta help. Maybe an idle/slow jet or passage is clogged.
  • Once warm, I start to get idling issues. Most prominently, she idles fine for a bit, then she just dies or cuts out. Restarts ok. I can finesse the throttle to avoid a stall, but I also get a bit of lugging experience. Slow to return to idle as well. Seems like vacuum leak, bad sync, and/or clogged jet(s).
  • I sprayed ether at the both ends of each side of the intake to check for leakage at the boots or the o-ring on the heads. Boot clamps and bolts at heads are tight. Sprayed ether at the linkages where they connect to carbs. Sprayed it at the vacuum screws on intakes. No indication of a leak.
  • Pulled the airbox to spray ether around the air cutoff body. (rubber gasket/rod is good, spring is good, internals work.) No change with ether applied.
  • Pulled out Carbtune to re-sync. All 4 are right in there. No outliers; nothing weird. No point in trying to improve upon near perfection - especially with the finicky idle. POSSIBLE CLUE?? My #3 &#4 sync hoses were getting popped off the brass nipples as the engine stumbled, sort of like back pressure.
  • Did find binding in throttle cables and a misaligned fuel filter that was hitting throttle mechanism. Sorted those bits, hoping for the best. After about a minute of smooth running, good throttle response on the center stand, and clean return to idle, she stumbled and died. She'll start right up, but it isn't what it's supposed to do. I have yet to road test her after checking/adjusting all these bits after work. Mostly, I feel disappointment at not finding an easily addressed vacuum leak.
  • It's a dyna ignition set up that hasn't been tweaked since I put Ginger back on the road, and she was a solid rider then.
  • Valves were at .006 back in April. Coulda tightened up/loosened in 1300 miles of riding, of course. I can't check that until I have a dead cold motor. Occam's Razor tells me the focus should be on the one variable that's changed in the last month - something with the rack.
  • Oh, the gas is freshly poured from the pump, with Seafoam added - as I started noticing those idle/lean issues right after mounting that rack. I've run the bike about 100 miles over maybe 5 days in this condition.
  • Mighta missed a jet/hole/passage/speck. I guess the rack is coming out again - if I don't want to struggle at the stoplights and stop signs - or in local stop/go traffic.
  • Or I run another tank with seafoam, sacrifice a glass of Newman's Roadside Virgin lemonade on the driveway as an offering to the motorhead gods, and hope against hope for improvement before pulling the rack again.
I keep telling myself that she'll be right as rain once I sort this piece out. And I'll reap the rewards and have the satisfaction of knowing that I sorted it out.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet (surf bike)
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1979 GL1000 - A Steel Horse with No Name (one owner, original paperwork, Vetter-ed up)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex

Active Project(s)
FrankenWing - 1980 GL1100 motor in 1982 or 1983 frame (still deciding)

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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rcmatt007
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#200

Post by rcmatt007 »

yeah, my LTD has never dialed in right either,,,, it sucks
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#201

Post by gltriker »

All I can offer is most likely reason why the synchronization hoses are popping off the synch fittings.
"Lean fuel backfire" into the carburetor throat .


Done
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:27 pm, edited 14 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#202

Post by gltriker »

ALSO!
Done
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:29 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#203

Post by pidjones »

For a performance engine, the .004 might be best, but for a cruiser, I'd go for loose at .006. The reasoning that I always read is that Honda valves "recede" into the seats, closing up the lash. You always want the valves to fully close for some durration to cool the edges and avoid burning. DOHC CB750 exhaust valves are noted for that, and must be kept watch on (plus, they are shim-in-bucket, which makes adjustment harder).
"Love 'em all.... let God sort 'em out!"
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gltriker
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#204

Post by gltriker »

interesting
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:32 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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robin1731
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#205

Post by robin1731 »

gltriker wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:07 am
I am dying to know what idle speed synchronizing instrumentation robin1731 uses.
I have no idea. There is no tach on my test engine. I always tell people, "the engine will tell you where it wants to idle". I get everything adjusted and synced then adjust the idle to suit. Make adjustments as you go till it all settles in.

Not probably what you or most want to hear but you asked. LOL

I know some may not have the "ear" to tell/get what they want. Much like adjusting the mixture screws by ear. But I've been doing it the same way for a long time. On all kinds of engine builds from stock to race.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
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gltriker
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#206

Post by gltriker »

robin1731 wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 2:11 pm
gltriker wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:07 am
I am dying to know what idle speed synchronizing instrumentation robin1731 uses.
I have no idea. There is no tach on my test engine. I always tell people, "the engine will tell you where it wants to idle". I get everything adjusted and synced then adjust the idle to suit. Make adjustments as you go till it all settles in.

Not probably what you or most want to hear but you asked. LOL

I know some may not have the "ear" to tell/get what they want. Much like adjusting the mixture screws by ear. But I've been doing it the same way for a long time. On all kinds of engine builds from stock to race.
I should have said carburetors' idle speed synchronizing equipment.
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
User avatar
gltriker
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#207

Post by gltriker »

:crosso
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#208

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Aha! GL1000s can be finicky and resistant to well-mannered running between about 1100 and 2300 rpm or so.

I think I can get her to run better than she's been running. At a minimum, I should return her to where she was a month ago - but with slides that are more polished, which I hope produces smoother response to throttle action.

I'm taking some real steps to address the carb issue by investing in another rack.

Mainly, this is because a project '78 GL my son and I are into has a rack that came partly disassembled in a mid-sized tupperware bucket. The plenum was split, a couple carbs pulled off, and one carb stripped of its jets. I set to cleaning the parts on a path to an inventory and rebuild. It's missing about a dozen bits that'll slowly bleed $ in a piecemeal acquisition effort.

Given the headaches on Ginger's carb rack and the bits missing from the '78 "rack in a box," I bought a pretty gnarly looking 768A rack that at least appeared to be intact. My thought: 12 carbs has to = 2 working racks in some math equation.

Fun discovery: One of the slides was broken at the post. I'd be curious about how that happens - lots of vacuum and super not-slidey slides? (I should share a photo. I'll get one and post it up.) Note to PO: "Now, there's your problem with the bike."

I'm down to 11 slide springs, 11 slide cover gaskets, and 11 slides. It's good to have some spares.

Last weekend, I disassembled that rack, cleaned it, and mounted it. On the bike (Ginger), I immediately had some trouble with it in the fuel leakage department, but I think I've traced it to a bum float valve needle and a poorly attached fuel line. (I'm learning, at least. I'm diagnosing leaks on the bench now, sparing myself the practice of installation/extraction.)

Back to Ginger's rack:

Fun fact for Old Fogey, who surmised back in '21 or '22 that my Wing and a Prayer '79 could be a hodgepodge of 78 and 79 bits. (Rounded tail lights, for example.) I hadn't really paid much attention to the carb model for the bike. They should be 771As. They're 769As. I have '78 carbs running on that '79 motor, which I don't think matters. From what I've read, the 771A carbs were Cali emission control carbs from 78 that just became THE carbs for the '79.

I pulled Ginger's rack apart again, cleaning everything. She had 3 near-to-stripped bowl screw orifices - ok, one was completely stripped - that I've been nursing. I decided not to play around with those and risk further issues. I tapped them for 8/32 screws and have much more confidence in the bowl seals. If someone (me?) strips them, they still have good meat left for a helicoil, a timesert, or an M5 tap.

Last night, my son and I mounted the '79 Ginger rack on our '78 project bike. (Some will know a little about that bike's issues from a Tech query I posted a few weeks back: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=78228.) Good news right away!

The bike fired up, ran on all 4 cylinders right away, etc. Gone is the cold #2 and the intermittent firing at #2 and #4. We're still in the midst of that project. I still have the oil+transmission fluid in the case, distilled water in the radiator, etc. She defogged the yard pretty well, sparing the neighborhood of mosquitoes.

I'm hoping that in a day or two I'll find an hour before dark bolt that new-to-me rack to Ginger, sync the carbs, and ride her some more.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet (surf bike)
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1979 GL1000 - A Steel Horse with No Name (one owner, original paperwork, Vetter-ed up)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex

Active Project(s)
FrankenWing - 1980 GL1100 motor in 1982 or 1983 frame (still deciding)

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#209

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

All's right with Ginger again. Thankfully.

I bolted on her original (to me) rack, futzed a little with the idle, and she's running better than she has since I rolled her out of the shed.

I hooked up my compression tester to Ginger. She's at 160-170 across all 4 cylinders. I didn't record which was highest/lowest. I'm pleased.

I need to dial back the idle a hair, I think. On the road and warm, sitting at the stoplight she tends to hover around 1400 (on the gauge) for a couple secs before dropping down closer to 11-1200. And she does have a little stumble here/there down below 2k - especially on a rapid throttle roll on. She can still be a little tricky at launch - I'll give her too much gas or almost stall her. This is absolutely nothing like what I had a week ago, and the whole shebang is smoother than she was in the first 1300 miles.

I'm loving the fact that she's out and about again. I took her to work today. After work, we hit 20+ miles of the backroads twisties. Joy.

I'll re-check the valves, timing, and sync - one of these days when I'm not tinkering with another bike. Come winter, I'll probably get in there and polish up the slides some more.

For now, I'm going to ride her because that's what she's all about.

Thanks to all for the ongoing suggestions and guidance.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet (surf bike)
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1979 GL1000 - A Steel Horse with No Name (one owner, original paperwork, Vetter-ed up)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex

Active Project(s)
FrankenWing - 1980 GL1100 motor in 1982 or 1983 frame (still deciding)

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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NotSoLilCrippseys
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Re: '79 Wing and a Prayer

#210

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Dagnabbit! Ginger has logged almost 3000 miles since I rolled her from the shed in May. I should be feeling great.

Unfortunately, I seem to still be in shakedown mode. After replacing the exploded aftermarket starter with an OEM GL1100 unit I had (joy!), I rode without incident for a bit.

Last week, I noticed a subtle "flutter" bog or hesitation on throttle - is a cylinder dropping out? are two? is timing off? is/are slides sticking? do I have air/fuel issues deeper in the carbs? - mostly at and above 3k. Gently rolling on throttle seems ok, mostly. And it seems to cut in/out and was really only occasional for a ride or two. This is a new thing that I initially chocked up to running the tank into reserve, then to possibly poor gas. I topped off with more gas, added seafoam, and rode another 50+ miles.

What started as a "wha?" or "hmm, ride it out" has become a real thing that I can't ignore. Riding is no longer the joy it was just a couple weeks ago.

If I get on the throttle she'll surge, bog, flutter, and surge - then settle in (or not). Sometimes, I get a good hard pull, then bog, then pull with flutter. I can get up above 6500 rpm pretty easily and she'll easily hit 80, but I don't really like pushing her when I have that bog/flutter going on. Idle seems to be a bit less reliable, but maybe I'm imagining things. Perhaps relatedly, perhaps coincidentally, I started to notice an occasional pop out the right pipe on decel around the same time the issue started. I rode her to work Thursday, and I grabbed each header pipe after first start - I'm firing on all 4 at start up, and she willingly wakes up with a push of the button. I don't rev the engine when cold, but I think I sense that it's a bit less noticeable or nonexistent when the bike isn't warmed up.

It almost feels like fuel starvation somewhere when calling for power - intermittently. Cruising at speed 3-4k, all feels pretty fine, with possible flutter here/there closer to/over 4k+. Clogged idle jets it ain't, and fuel screws are 3 turns out. My first thoughts are carb slides or a partly clogged screen in a carb or two.

Rather than chase one, another, and another thing, my plan is as follows:
  • 3k miles coming up. I'll adjust valves to see if something's up there. I hear the chatter, but I set at .006, which does offer a nice rocker chatter, especially with a cold motor. I don't expect an issue, but a re-check is in order.
  • I'm sitting there. I'll pull plugs and visually inspect to read some tea leaves. Re-gap as needed.
  • Check timing with the dyna. I've been reading about failing units, solder inside the unit, etc. Maybe it's dropping in/out. Maybe the dyna is fine. At least I can confirm that timing hasn't wandered.
  • I'll visually inspect the coils - crack? intermittent delivery when warm? paranoia?
  • If I find zero issue in the valves, timing, coils, I'll move to the carb slides and clean them.
  • I'll check the sync again, even though carbs were synced earlier in summer, after the last time I installed them
  • Carbs will come out if another polish of the slides does not return Ginger to normal. Maybe crap got through the filter, clogged a screen or two, and is limiting fuel delivery to a float bowl just when it's needed the most? Or maybe a float is sticking in the lower position, creating a starvation issue? Plugs might help me guess the culprit.
Maybe I get a couple hours next to Ginger over this holiday weekend. Maybe not.

I welcome other suggestions, but I think I'll really need the advice if I run through this list and don't manage to get her back where she was in mid-August.
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet (surf bike)
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1979 GL1000 - A Steel Horse with No Name (one owner, original paperwork, Vetter-ed up)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex

Active Project(s)
FrankenWing - 1980 GL1100 motor in 1982 or 1983 frame (still deciding)

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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