Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- BADDOG's Chronicle

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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 BADDOG - by the Dash Board Lights

#181

Post by Fred Camper »

Yes, even in bright sunlight I can see them flash now. I will have to run some trials and see if I can now unplug the buzzer or will it still be needed even with the bright flasher bulbs.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#182

Post by Fred Camper »

My Blinker buzzer is now gone, gotta like that. The 1 Surface Mount Diode (SMD. a type of LED) bulbs are bright enough that even in high sunlight the flasher indicator is obvious.

Yet, boy am I having trouble getting the Blinkers and Tail Light LED's to work out.

First I tried a red 13 SMD in the tail light, it washes the license plate in Red (no liking) and is not as bright as the stock incandescent bulb. So out it came.

I tried amber 13 SMD in the rear blinkers, and folks on the New River Gorge East Cost Rally reported them hard to see. So those came back out too.

I now have also tried amber 36 LED in the front blinkers and as shown, they are dimmer too. The incandescent is on the left, the amber 36 LED on the right. One issue I noticed is that the LED cluster bulb is shorter and does not reach the same spot on the bulb reflector.

Image

Hope someone can suggest a proven bulb type solution.

I know White Trash does well with the 36 red LED cluster in the Caddy tail lights but that is a smaller housing and a different bulb orientation. Need to save some power, so hope a solution is identified soon.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#183

Post by Oldewing »

No answer to your lighting..........


but don't trust the campground talk........................IMHO action1
82 GL1100 Interstate-Oldewing October 23 BOTM
06 GL1800 Road bike, as in Rode alot...
Sometimes I wrestle with my inner demons.........
Other times we just hug.......

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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#184

Post by polkadot »

I should have the white smd lights by next weekend. Will keep you posted.
Hope for the best, expect the worst and take what comes!

1977 Candy Sirus Blue Wing (gone but not forgotten!): Ernie's 77 Resto
1998 Yellow/Creme Valkyrie (sold): Valk Redo
1976 Sulfur Yellow Wing (sold): Melloyellow to live again
1976 LTD #1353 (sold): And away we go . . . . LTD style
1970 CT90 (sold): Had too much time on my hands so . . .
1/4 of 1975 Wing #898 (Sold): Team 898 - raised from the ashes
70ish Benelli Dynamo Scrambler (sold): Erector Set/Treasure Hunt aka Benelli Dynamo
1/6 of 1976 LTD #993 (Sold): LTD 993 . . . and so it begins
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#185

Post by gregforesi »

I ran into some problems with the 1 SMD's in the dummy light spots on the dash.
The oil and high beam indicators were all right.

The blinker indicators stayed on and would just dim and brighten when the flasher was working. The neutral light did the same thing. It doesn't take much to turn on an LED (or me either) so I'm thinking my neutral switch is a bit boogered up. I'm not sure what's going on with the blinker indicators, but I suspect some sort of high resistance ground short there as well. At any rate, I removed the LED's from both and went back to incandescent.
The duimmy lights are intermitent anyway. It's the lights that are on all the time that provide the power savings.

Regarding the buzzer - mine doesn't work with the solid-state flasher unit, but then it didn't work too good with the stock flasher either.

The bulb relfector works with the incandescent's because they shed some light backwards. The LED's throw all their light to the front so the reflector isn't utilized.
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#186

Post by Fred Camper »

If the 36 LED's would have been the same length as the incandescent bulb, then they would be better able to use the bulb reflector. But since they are shorter, they do not fully use the reflector.

Greg, I had forgot about the fuel gauge bulb, so per your reminder I put a 1 smd into that socket and it worked great. My main concern is the taillight and front blinkers as those both burn all the time. So the search continues and I am hopeful that Ernie has success with the clear units he ordered.
Last edited by Fred Camper on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues

#187

Post by Fred Camper »

I have now found a solution acceptable for me for all bulbs to move to LED low current solutions in Running Mode. First a terms to define, SMD is used to denote a Surface Mount Diode which is really a flat light emitting diode that is not a bulb shape. BA9S is the shape of the bulb mount for the indicators, speedo and tach lights.

In general, LEDs are not brighter than incandescent I have learned. Yes they run cooler and are more efficient, and in some applications they are as bright or brighter than incandescent, but in general they are not brighter if you consider all aspects of incandescent light.

Also note that LED bulbs are a “get what ya pay for” kind of thing. They are trending down in cost and some common ones like the 1 SMD BA9S lights for the indicators are inexpensive and work great. The 5 SMD BA9S are more expensive but work really well in the speedo and tach and also remain priced just higher than incandescent bulbs.

I purchased the BA9s SMD bulbs on eBay, and the seller has great feedback but no more product to sell. So a link there does not help.

Note the BA9S 5 SMD bulbs are way brighter than new incandescent BA9S bulbs. After you move beyond BA9S sizes, it gets harder to find a bright solution that remains affordable.

As noted above, I began in the taillight with a red 13 SMD socket 1157 bulb. I found this bulb not as bright as the incandescent 1157 and it washed the license plate in red. This would have taken a second bulb for the plate but it was too dim anyway. Next try for the tail light was a somewhat unique bulb from

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/ ... e_bulb.htm

This bulb has 19 forward facing red LED’s and 6 white LED’s for the license plate. My jury of reviewers found the bulb was brighter in the center round section of the taillight but dimmer in the outside corners where the reflectors are. I found this acceptable. No incandescent pictures, but it would have looked just like your stock taillight lol. This is a very nice solution for the stock tail light on the early wings.

The following pictures are with the LED tail light on, then the brake light on;
Image Image

The picture makes the taillight look yellow, but if you see them live you will agree they are the stock color of red. My bad with the poor camera light index.

My solution for the rear blinkers is to leave them as incandescent 1156 bulbs as they seldom are turned on and there would be no payback for an LED bright enough in that location. I tried 13 SMD and the 36 LED 1156 base bulbs also and neither was acceptable in terms of brightness.

The final frontier was the front turn signals which are on all the time as running lights so they are important for brightness and energy usage. At this location I found an aim-able 2 watt LED does fine with a required modification to the circuit.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo ... angle/816/

My bike is shown below with the LED on the left and the incandescent bulb on the right in the photo (the LED is on the right when sitting on the bike).
Image

This last picture shows the brightness when the blinker is on, but I do not feel this is necessary accurate as an incandescent bulb takes longer to reach full brightness and as I was using slow digital camera I cannot be certain that I captured each bulb at maximum brightness.

Here is the LED in Blink;
Image

and the stock incandescent in Blink;
Image
Last edited by Fred Camper on Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved?

#188

Post by Fred Camper »

Replaced the final drive earlier in the week, test road tonight and all looks well.

One issue with the front turn signal LED's was a feedback electrical issue that I do not fully understand but could fix.

When I hooked up just the running lamp right side wire to power, the running side of the LED worked. When I hooked up both wires, the blinker worked but not the running light. I measured voltage on the disconnected running light lead and got a small voltage. So this suggested feedback in the LED circuit internal to the bulb.

I tried this same 90 degree amber bulb in the tail light, and it worked just fine electrically wise. So there must be some sensitivity in the running light circuit.

I had a similar issue with the 13 SMD taillight that I tried weeks back. I did end up keeping that bulb on the bike due to the performance. But it set my Hyperlites flashing as soon as the bike keyed up. So it too had a feedback effect. I talked to Hyperlite tech support and they agreed that a diode was the best thing to try. The Superbrite LED tail light bulb I tried next worked right out of the box with no Hyperlite issues. So that leason just went into memory.

So I tried a diode (4N001 Radio Shack) by cutting the blinking element lead inside the headlight then inserting the diode pointing the flow direction toward the lamp and wallah, the running light worked just like it did when the blinker wire was disconnnected. So took a bit to figure out, but the solution was easy. A 4N001 diode has a small voltage drop (around 0.7 volt) but on the blinker element it did not appear consequential.

So certainly without a diode, the solution is no good but add one and you can have a very fine low current bright running light and blinker solution.
Last edited by Fred Camper on Thu May 16, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved

#189

Post by Fred Camper »

One lesson I learned this past summer was that a tubless tire on a tubeless rim (the rear Lester I ran this year) does not allow a roadside tube repair. I was running a tube to make roadside repair easy and the leak slower, but learned that there is no way short of using a bead breaker to get the tube back out on this combination.

On my rear Star Mag (no longer being used), the tire would come off without a bead breaker. I could step on the tire and break the bead, then use tire irons. Not so with the Lester.

Some great NGW's member hours away, who shall remain nameless (as Gord, Doug and Greg are shy), came to the rescue.

No more rear tube for me, a plug would have allowed me to be back on the road in 20 minutes. So now I can carry plugs and a small compressor and perhaps never need to use either.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved

#190

Post by gregforesi »

All the talk about lights and I missed your final drive replacement. What happened?
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved

#191

Post by polkadot »

Fred Camper wrote:One lesson I learned this past summer was that a tubless tire on a tubeless rim (the rear Lester I ran this year) does not allow a roadside tube repair. I was running a tube to make roadside repair easy and the leak slower, but learned that there is no way short of using a bead breaker to get the tube back out on this combination.

On my rear Star Mag (no longer being used), the tire would come off without a bead breaker. I could step on the tire and break the bead, then use tire irons. Not so with the Lester.

Some great NGW's member hours away, who shall remain nameless (as Gord, Doug and Greg are shy), came to the rescue.

No more rear tube for me, a plug would have allowed me to be back on the road in 20 minutes. So now I can carry plugs and a small compressor and perhaps never need to use either.
I think you have this all wrong. Forget the compressor etc., just remember the cell phone. All you had to do was chat with one of Ohio's finest while the Rat Pack came and rescued you. They loaded in truck and they repaired, right? Sounds like AAA at a bargain price to me. Where do I sign up?
Hope for the best, expect the worst and take what comes!

1977 Candy Sirus Blue Wing (gone but not forgotten!): Ernie's 77 Resto
1998 Yellow/Creme Valkyrie (sold): Valk Redo
1976 Sulfur Yellow Wing (sold): Melloyellow to live again
1976 LTD #1353 (sold): And away we go . . . . LTD style
1970 CT90 (sold): Had too much time on my hands so . . .
1/4 of 1975 Wing #898 (Sold): Team 898 - raised from the ashes
70ish Benelli Dynamo Scrambler (sold): Erector Set/Treasure Hunt aka Benelli Dynamo
1/6 of 1976 LTD #993 (Sold): LTD 993 . . . and so it begins
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved

#192

Post by CYBORG »

:lol: :lol: the best part was flagging down a passing highway patrol/sheriffs department deputy to help push the bike into the back of the truck. :lol: :lol:
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Issues Resolved

#193

Post by Fred Camper »

gregforesi wrote:All the talk about lights and I missed your final drive replacement. What happened?
After the WV trip and during Mid Ohio the rear rim started to collect oil. Tried the usual Lucas Hub Leak seal oil and it changed very little. So an alternative final drive was painted and installed.

This final drive is patiently waiting for GF to stop by and polish it. Looks like it needs to wait on the Shasta.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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Fred Camper
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Rocks - Maintenance

#194

Post by Fred Camper »

Did some minor updates over the winter. I drilled out the rotors cause they look kewl that way, not because they stop better. I feel drilling reduces rotor mass and that means the rotor heats up more during breaking. Now in the wet, rotor drilling may prove helpful if the rotor is cold to keep the water off the pads. So my compromise was drilling them at 3/16ths of an inch, removing very little rotor mass. As others have found and I have proven, you need to keep the drill speed as slow as possible and the feed fast. So forget about the web search that says to drill stainless at high speed, that does not work on brake rotors in my experience with a manual feed drill press. The high speed slow feed means you are heat treating the hole and the you have a very difficult to solve problem.

I used Jeff K's pattern on both the front and back
Here are the rotors front,
Image

Here is the rear rotor,
Image




I also replace the rear fender due to several cracks that I help form due to poor backing up in the garage. I used rubber paint for a truck bed liner on the underside and that seems to be a very nice coating.

Finally got out for a brief ride today and all seems to be fine.
Proud member of the NGW Cartel (Rochester MI)
1977 GL1000 BADDOG (April 2012 BOTM)
1976 LTD - '993 LTD...and so it begins'

You should remember that it's peace of mind you're after and not just fixing the machine. R.Pirsig
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polkadot
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Re: Fred's 1977 GL1000 -- LED Lighting Rocks - Maintenance

#195

Post by polkadot »

Fred Camper wrote:. . . drilling them at 3/16ths of an inch . . .
You realize of course that by using a non-metric drill on a Honda that balance and any possible Karma you had going was LOST! OMG Fred what were you thinking?
Hope for the best, expect the worst and take what comes!

1977 Candy Sirus Blue Wing (gone but not forgotten!): Ernie's 77 Resto
1998 Yellow/Creme Valkyrie (sold): Valk Redo
1976 Sulfur Yellow Wing (sold): Melloyellow to live again
1976 LTD #1353 (sold): And away we go . . . . LTD style
1970 CT90 (sold): Had too much time on my hands so . . .
1/4 of 1975 Wing #898 (Sold): Team 898 - raised from the ashes
70ish Benelli Dynamo Scrambler (sold): Erector Set/Treasure Hunt aka Benelli Dynamo
1/6 of 1976 LTD #993 (Sold): LTD 993 . . . and so it begins
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