Western Canada 77 GL1000

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sebastien
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Western Canada 77 GL1000

#1

Post by sebastien »

Hello forum,

This bike was given to me in March this year, but I've only started tearing into it this fall. It was a bike that I noticed for many months, sitting there partially covered under a common parking structure, exposed to all the elements the weather up here has to offer. I noticed on the plate that it hadn't really been insured/ridden since 2014, so I finally found the owner, who, within seconds of talking, offered to simply give me the bike! Luckily, it was only about 500m from my house, so wheeling it over was no big issue.
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I know better now, thanks to spending lots of time on this forum, but I should've opened the belt cover first to realize that things were not looking great inside there. Unknowingly, I cranked the engine over and tried to start it, but it obviously did not, as the left belt was snapped. That's when I started to take it apart, with the goal of getting it started in the not-so-distant future, in order to see if I should continue spending time and money on this old beast.
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I did remove the left head, as I thought I'd killed that side of the motor, cranking it ignorantly with the starter. Looks like I got lucky, as I've seen no evidence of pistons hitting valves and, after removal, the valves are straight.


I even bought a running parts bike a few weeks ago, a 76. It's got its fair share of issues, but hopefully a hybrid bike will be a working machine. For now, I'd really like to get the 77 engine running and spend more time and money on this project.

Questions for y'all:
-What would be a maximum number of seconds to run the engine dry with no coolant, just to see if it does run? It's cold up here these days, so the block would be starting out just above freezing.
-If I were to reassemble the left head with the old head gasket and some gasket sealer, would that be a good enough seal to get the engine running for a few seconds (see above question)?
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That's all I can think of for now, enjoy the weekend,
Sebastien
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1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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ericheath
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#2

Post by ericheath »

Has the forward intake valve been hammering on something? If so, you’ll need to check it. With valves closed pour some liquid (alcohol) in the chambers and see if the valves are sealing. Likely not very well after sitting.

Since your compression ring in the head gasket looks intact, you might get it to run with just sealer for a test. Others have run bikes for a minute or so with no known damage as a result. Your time is all you’re losing.

If like most, the carbs will be filthy and jets plugged. Don’t expect much. If the 76 bike ran okay, you could use them for your test.

Search here and you’ll find an awful lot of posts of older bikes that sat which suffer from low compression. Many gain compression back to acceptable ranges with 500 miles of seat time. No major wear on the cylinder walls(??), you’re probably good.

Plan on doing both heads now, or plan on doing the other one very soon after. You’ll be happier longer if you put new stem seals and lap the valves.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#3

Post by sebastien »

thanks for the tip, Eric. I'll probably just get an aftermarket engine top end kit, that way all that is taken care of and I should be good to start 'er up after that.
Sebastien
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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ericheath
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#4

Post by ericheath »

Advice here has usually been to stick with OEM head gaskets, but I think in recent years that has changed some. OEM Honda once sold a head gasket with a metal mesh between the goo sandwich, but the last ones I got were the same as aftermarket. The price came down equally.

I will advise that for the money, new dowel pins from Honda will save time and ensure successful torque. Most use a drill bit in the dowel pin and a vise grip and heat as needed to pull them.

In the last few years it seems the larger Honda dealers compete with the aftermarket dealers very competitively. Not sure if supply side right now. I order a lot from Southwest Honda, but a downside with them is they don’t tell you if they have the part in stock. It may be worth the old fashioned phone call to assure you’re not stuck waiting for one part.

There are electronic manuals floating around if you don’t have one yet.

Aircraft paint stripper using a brush softens the old gaskets up pretty good for me.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#5

Post by sebastien »

Hi all, to give you an update on things, I've started digging further into this bike as I had no parts, yet, to finish some sections. Here's the highlights (I did buy a 76 parts bike in November and started "involving" it into the 77 resurrection:

1. Discovered that carbs on my 77 are actually from an 1100. Since I've never seen the engine run, I don't know how well these carbs work on this bike. I guess I should rebuild them, but I decided to instead, remove the carbs from the 76, which are 758A, and rebuild those.
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No photos of the 76 carbs yet but took a quick peek in one fuel bowl and they looked dirty but acceptable. The 76's fuel filter was disgusting and the tank doesn't look great. Here's the 76 before carb removal. I also revealed the belts as I'll need to change them at some point.
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2. Removed the electrical harness from the 77. It had no front signals and tiny rear ones with no ground. Cleaned all connections with Q-tips, vinegar and shop towels. Want to make sure everything is working great before I re-install. Was looking at SidecarBob's PDF colour wiring diagrams yesterday, thanks for those Bob! Does anybody know why the PO would have had this bypass red wire? Something to do with the Prestolite iginition? It connects from the reserve lighting unit to the blue with white wire near the steering tube.
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3. Removed the innards of both front brake master cylinder assemblies. Took a while with the first one, but the second one was a breeze. Need to order the kit to renew the best one of the two. Also took apart both front calipers. Easy process, just need the rebuild kits.
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4. Lapped valves of L side, cylinders 2 and 4. Will change valve stems and re-install. Poured water in combustion chamber with valves in and no water came rushing out intake or exhaust ports. Hopefully that'll work. Sorry no pics.

5. Removed fuel tank from 77. Looks decent inside so may get away with doing nothing. 76 tank not so pretty but only need one tank for now! Now that I'm this far along, considering taking out engine in order to a)check clutch and b) repaint frame. Will also need to change fork seals and fork oil at some point; easily done now that wiring harness is off; oh and re-pack steering bearings.

It's been super cold here for at least the last 1.5 weeks, which does complicate work a little bit, for example, carb removal and all the associated fumes in an enclosed environment; no fun! Got it done, however.

Hope wrenching is going well in your parts of the world, cheers,

Sebastien
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Fred Camper
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#6

Post by Fred Camper »

Cold here also, kerosene heater is your friend this time of year. Good wrenching to you too.
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sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#7

Post by sebastien »

Just about have the L head back on. Took a while to get those head locating dowels off! Thanks for the tip, Eric, I guess I didn't fully understand at first when you mentioned using a drill bit and vise grips. For the dowel stuck in the head, I drilled right through the dowel, put a centre punch of the right diameter in the hole, and twisted it free quite easily. This is after using vise grips to grip onto the edge of the dowel, including using a torch, but no luck.
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The above pic shows that technique, used later in the block, which didn't work.
I then tried the hydraulic method that SidecarBob mentioned somewhere; pumping grease into the hole and using hydraulic force to push the dowel out; also didn't work, no pic.
Then, I realized what Eric meant and put a very close-fitting centre punch in the dowel, tightened vice grips on this combo, twisted, and finally got the dowel off!
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Hopefully this sheds confusion for anyone following in my footsteps. Just about to put head gasket on, but missing the tiny O-RING (4.1X1.5)
91308-371-003 that goes in the oil control orifice, so need to wait until Tuesday night at the earliest for that.

From what I remember reading in the forum; gasket goes on dry, right? Manual says to use some sealant but doesn't specify much about what type...I did spend the CAD$75 to buy a Honda gasket. Really hope I can try to fire this bike up next week; temps will finally be above freezing and I can open the main garage door!
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#8

Post by Whiskerfish »

I have used copper coat on some but most I have done have been dry. Make sure to chase the threads for the head bolts and lube them, then tighten with a decent torque wrench. Use the torques from the service Bulletin here viewtopic.php?f=52&t=43637#p453024
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#9

Post by sebastien »

thanks Whiskerfish, that's good to know; I'll write that new torque down in my manual. Just wondering if chasing threads can be done with a tap and die kit; I have a decent one. Looks like threads are M10x1.25, basically clean them up inside block and clean up bolt threads before proceeding? Cheers,

P.S: thanks again Eric for this tip:
"The proper way is with a puller, they’re usually stuck on the cam.

The not proper way, yeah that’s me, not proper, is to put the cam pulley bolt back in, place a 10-12mm wrench so its midpoint is on the bolt’s face, then use two vise grips on each end of the wrench so it holds the wrench in place and the jaws of the visecgrips are grabbing the pulley through the holes or spokes if you have the spoked type. It’s easy to mar up the pulley, but you want them as close to the wrench as possible but clamped onto the cam gear between the holes in the cam gear so that when you now back the pulley bolt out, it pushes the wrench, which pushes the the vise grips, which pulls the pulley outward. It may take two tries. (Removing the washer will gain more distance )

Now read that again five times, then take a stab or get a gear puller."

-Managed to get the pulley off the L camshaft without any drama! I did have to read that quite a few times to get it but it worked great.
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#10

Post by Whiskerfish »

Yep just run a tap down there to make sure the threads are nice and clean. Should not take much more than finger pressure.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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ericheath
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#11

Post by ericheath »

If you can’t afford or access quickly a tap and have a long enough spare bolt with the right threads, you can cut two or three flutes with a thin cutting wheel to run up and down the threads. Poor man’s tap. I have many laying in my random drill bits and tap drawer.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#12

Post by sebastien »

Hey all,

Thought I'd give you an update on what's going on with my '77 GL1000. Since January, I finished stitching everything up on the motor, L head gasket back on, checked valves, timing with the Ignitech installed by PO.
-first start was late Jan.
-was able to ride around neighbourhood at low speed in late Jan.
-Feb was for rebuilding front brakes, checking all wiring, bolt torques.
-Since March, riding around for progressively longer rides. Originally installed aftermarket pipes that came from my parts bike. Did this quickly with no copper gaskets, so there was backfiring, likely because of lack of gaskets.
-In last 2 weeks, repainted and installed original exhaust. Sound is less than with aftermarket, but still some light backfiring. Would this be more from badly adjusted timing or dirty carbs?
-Installed heated grips and just installed a windscreen in order to do longer rides. New front tire.
-Bike is smooth on the highway but not as smooth at low throttle. Much better when warmed up than when cold, of course!

My goal for this late spring/summer, is to get the bike running well. I'm sure it needs a thorough carb clean. The carbs on it came from my parts bike. They're a 76 rack, and, judging how that PO took care of the parts bike, likely pretty gross on the inside. Randakk's seems to not have the GL1000 carb rebuild kit in stock. Just saw that I can buy the GL1100 kit, however. Maybe I'll do that; rebuild the 1100 carb rack that came with my 77, that way I can keep riding while I get these 1100 carbs cleaned up and functional. Any opinions on running 1100 carbs on a 77? I know Randakk doesn't recommend it...

Over the winter, I'd like to fully take the bike apart, repaint everything and do any required engine items, but so far, everything seems to be running o.k. I'm also curious to remove the Ignitech and install the points from the parts bike, in order to play with those and see if I can get the bike running better.

Here's a video of the bike running in its first few days after resurrection in January
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
sebastien
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#13

Post by sebastien »

MOV_2757.mp4
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1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Whiskerfish
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Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#14

Post by Whiskerfish »

That ticking is nasty. Any idea where it is coming from? Could it be your header leak?? You want to try and get that idle down. In the vid she is way to high to know if you idle circuits are clear. Ideally you want about 1000 rpm or so.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
sebastien
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Posts: 27
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 4:47 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: Western Canada 77 GL1000

#15

Post by sebastien »

Thanks for you advice Whiskerfish. Hmm yeah that what pretty early on with aftermarket exhaust and no header gasket. I'll take some videos and upload them now with oem exhaust at cold start then idle once warm. Curious to hear what you think after that. Stay tuned.
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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