GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
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- Chrome Member
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Nice. Not sure how that fuel rail is, but think about cutting it right down the middle. You could then keep each half on the injectors and just connect the two halves with fuel line. It would look much better than running fuel line to each injector & probably be safer. Just a thought.
Gator
Gator
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
The fuel rail that comes with it won't work, about a 15mm wider spacing if they were connected to the Carb runners. I was talking about buying some -6AN fuel rail extrusion, drilling the ends out to 37/64ths and then using my 3/8" NPT tap for an NPT to AN adapter. Then using my 11mm drill bit to drill out holes for the injectors. I do a lot of side work doing custom fuel setups for local guys. Stainless AN hard lines, hoses, and even a fuel rail or two. I have all the equipment and even standard and stainless AN flare tools to do it.Gator417 wrote:Nice. Not sure how that fuel rail is, but think about cutting it right down the middle. You could then keep each half on the injectors and just connect the two halves with fuel line. It would look much better than running fuel line to each injector & probably be safer. Just a thought.
Gator
1975 GL1000 - Delkevic exhaust with stainless studs, Corbin Touring seat, Race Tech Gold Valve cartridge emulators, Progressive 11-1100 springs, Progressive 412HD rear shocks, Shinko 230 tires, Fork Brace, Trucklite 27270c headlight, X-Arc Signals (run, brake, turn), Hydraulic Clutch conversion, EBC Clutch discs, HD springs, and Barnett Steels + Plate B eliminated. BikeMaster DLFP-50N18L Lithium battery, Rick's Motorsports CBR600F4 Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier upgrade.
- AstroWing
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Hello, you are doing great. Here is my unsolicited opinion.
I did it the hard way on my Mega Squirt project. I have not been able to finish my throttle body/injected GL1100 yet but I am done with the cranck trigger and throttle body portion.
What I learned from the work I did, gave me Ideas for how to do it easier if I did it again.
Many multi cylinder engines run fine with a single throttle plate. I would go to the junkyard and find one from a small car. I would take the junkyard throttle body and my engine to a person that builds race car headers. He could make plates (flanges) to bolt to the head, like I did, bend some tubes to come together at the center of the engine into a box at the junkyard single throttle plate. I would have him weld in four injector bungs as close to the head and aimed at the intake valves, like I did on my project. The simplicity of the single throttle plate will make the rest of the build so much easier. Throttle cables air cleaner, manifold pressure sensor, etc.
I hope to get back and finish my Goldwing one day, but my day job is taking all of my time. You can go see my project on this forum at:
Cut weld wrench and ride
Best wishes.
I did it the hard way on my Mega Squirt project. I have not been able to finish my throttle body/injected GL1100 yet but I am done with the cranck trigger and throttle body portion.
What I learned from the work I did, gave me Ideas for how to do it easier if I did it again.
Many multi cylinder engines run fine with a single throttle plate. I would go to the junkyard and find one from a small car. I would take the junkyard throttle body and my engine to a person that builds race car headers. He could make plates (flanges) to bolt to the head, like I did, bend some tubes to come together at the center of the engine into a box at the junkyard single throttle plate. I would have him weld in four injector bungs as close to the head and aimed at the intake valves, like I did on my project. The simplicity of the single throttle plate will make the rest of the build so much easier. Throttle cables air cleaner, manifold pressure sensor, etc.
I hope to get back and finish my Goldwing one day, but my day job is taking all of my time. You can go see my project on this forum at:
Cut weld wrench and ride
Best wishes.
Have lots of bikes... need one more.
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Well, that part won't be a problem for you then.
If you go the route Astrowing has sugggested it would definitely be simpler. Maybe you'll lose some throttle response and top end power and gain some torque on the bottom end because of the long runners. Maybe not. You might get that top end and throttle response back because the efi is so much more accurate and tunable. It does sound to me like you're pretty set on using the GSXR throttle bodies though. Sounds like a really cool project & I hope you keep us informed.
Gator
PS; Astrowing, can you post your build thread as a link? I'm not able to click on it and would really like to see your setup.
If you go the route Astrowing has sugggested it would definitely be simpler. Maybe you'll lose some throttle response and top end power and gain some torque on the bottom end because of the long runners. Maybe not. You might get that top end and throttle response back because the efi is so much more accurate and tunable. It does sound to me like you're pretty set on using the GSXR throttle bodies though. Sounds like a really cool project & I hope you keep us informed.
Gator
PS; Astrowing, can you post your build thread as a link? I'm not able to click on it and would really like to see your setup.
- ericheath
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Interesting reading about efi conversions of flat 4 engines at shoptalkforums.com and thesamba.com , including a fair number of GSXR adaptions.
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Well, I had an idea to use the stock carb plenum and air cleaner assembly and simply put the GSXR bodies in place of the carbs, or fabricate my own plenum using the stock one as a template., and making the stock air cleaner assembly work with it. The main thing I need to know is what the length of a factory carb is from end to end. the GSXR bodies are 83mm long (3.26"). Anybody have a carb laying around they could measure for me? It's hard getting an accurate one when they are installed on the bike.
1975 GL1000 - Delkevic exhaust with stainless studs, Corbin Touring seat, Race Tech Gold Valve cartridge emulators, Progressive 11-1100 springs, Progressive 412HD rear shocks, Shinko 230 tires, Fork Brace, Trucklite 27270c headlight, X-Arc Signals (run, brake, turn), Hydraulic Clutch conversion, EBC Clutch discs, HD springs, and Barnett Steels + Plate B eliminated. BikeMaster DLFP-50N18L Lithium battery, Rick's Motorsports CBR600F4 Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier upgrade.
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Thanks Eric. That's a great thread.
Gator
Gator
- ericheath
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Makes my work look really bad.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
I just got done reading your whole thread Astro. wow. I can do some fab work, but you definitely take it to a new level.
On to my thoughts, I had all but decided to buy a 1200 efi setup, but then I was able to snag a complete set of 2002 GSXR 600 throttle bodies for $50 complete with injectors and sensors from a working bike. I want to track down another GL1000 plenum to do some experimenting with, but from my measures, the stock carbs are roughly 4 3/4" from end to end (margin of error there) which makes them 120mm end to end, vs the throttle bodies being 83mm. That gives 37mm, or just under 1 1/2" of gap, so I am thinking to build flanges with a tube end to connect to the stock plenum that I can join to the bodies with silicon couplers. I have lots of aluminum tubing and plate to play with. I will make a thread once I have all the parts together. My only concern is the fuel rail hitting the frame, but I won't know for sure until I have all the goodies.
On to my thoughts, I had all but decided to buy a 1200 efi setup, but then I was able to snag a complete set of 2002 GSXR 600 throttle bodies for $50 complete with injectors and sensors from a working bike. I want to track down another GL1000 plenum to do some experimenting with, but from my measures, the stock carbs are roughly 4 3/4" from end to end (margin of error there) which makes them 120mm end to end, vs the throttle bodies being 83mm. That gives 37mm, or just under 1 1/2" of gap, so I am thinking to build flanges with a tube end to connect to the stock plenum that I can join to the bodies with silicon couplers. I have lots of aluminum tubing and plate to play with. I will make a thread once I have all the parts together. My only concern is the fuel rail hitting the frame, but I won't know for sure until I have all the goodies.
1975 GL1000 - Delkevic exhaust with stainless studs, Corbin Touring seat, Race Tech Gold Valve cartridge emulators, Progressive 11-1100 springs, Progressive 412HD rear shocks, Shinko 230 tires, Fork Brace, Trucklite 27270c headlight, X-Arc Signals (run, brake, turn), Hydraulic Clutch conversion, EBC Clutch discs, HD springs, and Barnett Steels + Plate B eliminated. BikeMaster DLFP-50N18L Lithium battery, Rick's Motorsports CBR600F4 Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier upgrade.
- Rednaxs60
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Late to the thread. Very interesting read. For myself, my interest lies in that I ride an '85 LTD and know that it is not a matter of if something may go wrong, but when. I am learning a lot about the trials of converting to FI; however, I'm looking at these threads as a way ahead should the ECU on my bike head south.
Excellent write up.
Cheers
Excellent write up.
Cheers
"When writing the Story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen."
Ernest
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ernest
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Thanks Rednaxs60,
There are some ecu repair places out there that could probably take on the job if you could talk them into it. Getting a micro/megasquirt to work would take some modifying. Honda used an elaborate way to measure intake manifold pressure that included 4 one-way reed valves and 2 map sensors that I'm pretty sure is unique in the world of efi systems. The rest of the system is pretty standard, although more like that seen 10-15 years later.
Glad to see yours is still on the road!
There are some ecu repair places out there that could probably take on the job if you could talk them into it. Getting a micro/megasquirt to work would take some modifying. Honda used an elaborate way to measure intake manifold pressure that included 4 one-way reed valves and 2 map sensors that I'm pretty sure is unique in the world of efi systems. The rest of the system is pretty standard, although more like that seen 10-15 years later.
Glad to see yours is still on the road!
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
- Rednaxs60
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- Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:14 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
socrace - what you have accomplished is great. Have read where it is far easier and less expensive to buy with EFI already there, but these threads keep one abreast of what is available out there. Prefer EFI over carbs - personal preference. Found a business in Florida that may do repairs, but have yet to contact it.
Have a slight miss/stumble right now below 3000 RPM. In my reading this can be attributed to the PB sensors. Have 2 from the Suzuki world on order - DENSO 15620-35F00 and here shortly. The newer technology is a bit more robust. The only sensors I have not been able to source as of yet are the GR/GL sensors located on the back of the right cylinder head. Have found a potential work around using an LX579 sensor. The Ns sensor that is the same P/N but different attachment is 30300-MN1-680.
Still looking for "new" spark igniters".
Lots to look at.
Thanks again for an excellent thread.
Cheers
Have a slight miss/stumble right now below 3000 RPM. In my reading this can be attributed to the PB sensors. Have 2 from the Suzuki world on order - DENSO 15620-35F00 and here shortly. The newer technology is a bit more robust. The only sensors I have not been able to source as of yet are the GR/GL sensors located on the back of the right cylinder head. Have found a potential work around using an LX579 sensor. The Ns sensor that is the same P/N but different attachment is 30300-MN1-680.
Still looking for "new" spark igniters".
Lots to look at.
Thanks again for an excellent thread.
Cheers
"When writing the Story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen."
Ernest
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ernest
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
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- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 pm
- Location: Springfield, Ill.
Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
That's good info on the sensors. As for ignition ignitors, I'm "pretty sure" that any 5 wire Honda Ignitor from the early 80's will work, just leave the blue wire unconnected. Here's an ignitor schematic that may or not be accurate; looks like there should be no problems if it is (blue wire is left side sensor input)...
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
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Re: GL1100 with throttle bodies (Fuel Injection)
Here's the latest ecu tuning file I'm using on the GL1100.
It's setup for async batch fire on the injectors and full sync coil on plug ignition, using a 36-1 tooth crank sensor and single tooth cam sensor.
It's a tunerstudio msq file, which has all the fuel and spark tables, and just about all other tuning data (except sensor calibrations), and can be read either as a text file, or loaded directly by tunerstudio.
As for using tunerstudio to open this msq tune file, a few things to watch:
Unless using msextra 3.4.2 firmware, your tunerstudio project will generate many error messages, but should mostly work.
Also, tunerstudio may try to use this msq the next time you access your ecu, be prepared to say "no" to that error message!
It's setup for async batch fire on the injectors and full sync coil on plug ignition, using a 36-1 tooth crank sensor and single tooth cam sensor.
It's a tunerstudio msq file, which has all the fuel and spark tables, and just about all other tuning data (except sensor calibrations), and can be read either as a text file, or loaded directly by tunerstudio.
As for using tunerstudio to open this msq tune file, a few things to watch:
Unless using msextra 3.4.2 firmware, your tunerstudio project will generate many error messages, but should mostly work.
Also, tunerstudio may try to use this msq the next time you access your ecu, be prepared to say "no" to that error message!
1981 Goldwing Standard - efi'd, other stuff
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