V65 madness

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ericheath
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V65 madness

#1

Post by ericheath »

I've had these carbs laying around for a while and an idle mind conjures up really bad ideas when you're laying around recovering from hip surgery. The oxicodone helped the pain, but hurts the thinking. I couldn't help myself so I set about seeing how I could change carburation on my 1200,000 engine. The v65 carbs are very similar to the 1200 carbs. The V 65 carbs are 36 mm 33 mm venturis. The 1200 carbs are much smaller but of the same design. First I needed to see if they would match up to the 1200 plenum, they don't. But give a hack like me a drill, and I can do some damage. They can be made to line up with the help of the little JB Weld.
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I just elongated the holes a little bit to make the carbs fit, and I need a little JB Weld to seal around the holes.
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More madness to come. No they didn't fit that easily.
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Last edited by ericheath on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#2

Post by ericheath »

So, did the carbs bolt to the plenum that easily, yes. Did the linkages line up, no of course not! The V 65 carb set up is for a totally different engine and throttle shaft were quite different. Should've stopped there. But no, I had to go and pull apart the 1200 carbs and compare the throttle shafts. To work, the 1200 throttle shaft openings for the plates had to be widened. So out came a hacksaw blade, and they were widened. I did not take pics of that, sorry I forgot, or was too embarrassed to say that I even tried it. Anyways, with enough persuasion they can be fit. I used carburetor stays to help align the shafts as I fit them. Wish it was as easy as bolting them on. But now the linkages from the 1200 carbs can be used. They pretty much all lined up. I did have to grind some material away from the idle stop area to allow the throttle plates to close fully. I removed as much of the plumbing from underneath the plenum as I could and plug holes etc.
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I'm sure I am leaving out some pretty big details on how this worked. One of the bigger problems was finding fuel lines that would fit. The v65 fuel lines are much larger in diameter then the 1200. I ended up cutting the V65 fuel lines and gluing them into a piece of copper tube. I got some epoxy from a vendor here who said it would work. And so far it has worked for about a week. Fingers crossed on that one.
Last edited by ericheath on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#3

Post by ericheath »

Next up was trying to make some elbows for the carbs to connect to the dance. I wanted to avoid the smaller intake runners from the 1200. They are tiny. So I had purchased about 40 extra intake runners from other Gl's so one of them should work or be made to work? I also bought some stainless steel elbows from China and also some stainless steel grab rails. This was a lot of fun!! Not. I thought it would be easy and just cut the stock intake runners, find some rubber to connect them, and I would be done.
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There, simple as pie!!!!Now find some rubber and bolt them up. Whoooooooops, problem. This made them too tall to fit under the frame above the motor. The V 65 and 1200 carbs are canted at about 30° Which forces the plenum to be higher. The 1000 carbs are closer to horizontal. Back to the drawing board or Chop Shop if you will. The next week or two or six ended up with many failed experiments. The results of that is this mess. I think I could make the grab runners or grab rails work, but I'm not throwing more money at it until I know whether the carbs will run or not. At this point I was stalled.
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Photo shows some that would fit under the frame, but I could not get rubber to bend enough to make a decent seal. Even gluing it would fail.
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The next photo shows some that would fit under the frame, but I could not get rubber to bend enough to make a decent seal. And neither could you!!
Last edited by ericheath on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#4

Post by ericheath »

So life got in the way for awhile. I went out a few days ago and looked at my v65 carbs laying on the bench, and thought what a waste of money!!! I should have sold both sets of carbs and bought a set of Webbers, duuuuuuh!!! So with nothing to lose, error maybe, I looked at the 1200 intake runners which were way too small to fit the V 65 carbs. Out came a 1-5/8" hole saw and they fit! If I only had a drill press. I did this by holding the runner in one hand and drilling free hand.
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I cleaned up the ends the best I could, and radiused the edges where the V 65 carbs would dump into them. How did I do that? You don't want to know, But it involves a drill and a 9/16 bit. And the ream away song. They are cleaner than the pic shows now. But now I have a 36 mm throat going through a 33 mm Venturi going into about a 30-31mm intake runner. I'm probably leaving out some details, and if you read this far, you're probably happy I did. They did bolt on fairly easily, but of course there were leaks in my plumbing. I remedied those and put them on and fired it up. Did it run great? Course not. It idled beautifully until it warmed up and then it revved up over two grand. It ended up being my crossover choke linkages were interfering with the throttle operation. I removed them and now have to choke by hand if I need to. Onto the first ride! Lots of backfires. Some spots where there was amazing power but lots of misses in between.

Look at all the room I have to work on with my set up. I timed myself and it took me a little over three minutes to pull the carbs when I was working on the jetting nightmare. I was able to pull the carbs, change a jet and have the bike started again in 25 minutes. I just have a pull cable, no choke cable, a slide in air filter, and with a tank that swings up and back, it's easy to work on.
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Last edited by ericheath on Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#5

Post by ericheath »

So the big question, does it run? Yes, not without any frustrations. I will say the v65 or VD style carbs are easier to tweak as they only have two basic Jets. I ended up settling in on a 38 idle jet and a 130 main jet. It's still would get too rich when hammered open. I went from a stock 1200 main jet of 105 up to a 150 main jet. I tried both sets of needles. I tried washers under the needles. I couldn't get it to run right with just jetting changes, so I did the same as I did with my 77 carbs and changed the amount of vacuum to open the slides. I ended up partially plugging one of the two holes in the bottom of the slides. The 1200 slide has only one hole in it. The V 65 slide has two holes. I just plugged one and it is only partially plugged, probably three quarters.

I have it running very well right now. I still get a random backfire here and there and out of different variety of RPMs. I don't think I have any air leaks. I was thinking that it might improve my bottom end performance since the intake runner gets smaller it should be speeding up the charge to help it to fill faster.
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Last edited by ericheath on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#6

Post by ericheath »

I will try and mount a camera and take a video of it running. I have a coupl videos of it running on the 77 carbs, so I will be able to compare the two. So, if there is anyone else out there with a set of v65 carbs and a set of 1200 carbs and you want to wreck most of the parts, and you have a lot of time to kill, do what I did.

It's just another thing to make people look at my bike and say,"what the heck is that???"
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: V65 madness

#7

Post by robin1731 »

:shock: :shock: anim-cheers1 shakehands anim-cheers1
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Re: V65 madness

#8

Post by ericheath »

I rode it some today, but it was only in the 50's today. Still got some random pops. I almost think it's lean around 3-5k when holding steady throttle. I can switch back to the 1200 needle which opened up sooner, or has thinner taper than the V65 needle. Warm weather may create something altogether different.

Wish I knew if the slide was open there, or if it's all on the first jet.

Couldn't figure a way to get my iPhone attached so it would be readable. I don't think it has an anti shake setting and it has no zoom. Kind of disappointed in Apple for that.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#9

Post by ericheath »

Well, I was about to write this off as no better than my 77 carbs and perhaps even worse. But today I decided to back my timing off a little bit so I just tweaked it a little bit, didn't even measure it, but it brought the idle down some. So I took it for a ride, a little popping at around 4-5k but not as bad. I left a stoplight, got going about 5 miles an hour, clutch fully out and put the hammer down and the back tire broke loose like never before! Tried it a few more times same thing. So I would have to say this needs some more work. It definitely feels like it's got more juice on the bottom end now. I had my timing at around 9 degrees advanced. It's probably about 7 now. I will put a light on it later. Gotta go pedal the bike for a bit so I stay viable.

Anyone have thoughts about correct timing for my hybrid? The 1200 stock is supposed to be 10 degrees BTDC, the 1000 is 5 degrees BTDC. I have 1000 heads which advanced cams to about 3.5 degrees. So my intake valve begins to open at around 8.5 degrees instead of 5 degrees BTDC. My exhaust valve is now closing at 1.5 degrees ATDC. My waste spark is coming in there somewhere, right?

I have always wondered about this. The uneven sound of boxer engines, could this be from random pops of the little bit of intake charge that is let in on the end of the exhaust stroke? Mine currently has one little poof from the right side when idled down low, 1000 rpm, and it almost sounds wet, like a drop of water hitting. I may check my valves this morning.

I have ground away a little of the stops on my advance mechanism to allow it to open a little further, so I probably am getting closer to 40+ degrees advance on my timing.
Last edited by ericheath on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: V65 madness

#10

Post by fish »

excellent write up!
thasnks for taking the time to documnet it for us.
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Re: V65 madness

#11

Post by 82aspy »

never seen these carbs on a wing, looks like trailblazing to me!
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ngw quotes anim-cheers1 - \ "I will strip the beast" \ "the swingarm is just a hunk of metal" \ "gonna maybe ...dunno yet" \ "It's never done, thats the fun." \ "something about this site brings me back"
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ericheath
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Re: V65 madness

#12

Post by ericheath »

Tinkered and rode some more today. Wow!!! The power is back. I backed my timing off a bit more and I think tomorrow I'll go down to 120 for my main jet. Seems a tad rich on a moderate acceleration. Still got the farts from 4-5k. I also found a big issue with the idle, a spark plug that was intermittent. Put in a new one and she purrs. That's my second in a year. I side gapped them so it's probably my own doing. If it does it more, I'll have to check my wires and make sure they're tight everywhere. I have my timing at about 6-7 deg BTDC now. I can see how a C5 could help on that now. I wonder how many degrees between sparks on them??
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: V65 madness

#13

Post by sunnbobb »

Nice write up. Have you thought about Iridium plugs?
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Re: V65 madness

#14

Post by olchris »

:2thumbs :2thumbs thanks for you info.................. Wow musta be a big day on the 10th ;) ;)
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Re: V65 madness

#15

Post by 82aspy »

ericheath wrote:So the big question, does it run? Yes, not without any frustrations....
Well, I was about to write this off...... as no better than my 77 carbs and perhaps even worse......
But today I decided to back my timing off a little bit....
Tinkered and rode some more today. Wow!!! The power is back....
more to come i'm sure :8)
"there is a Darwinian element"
Yoda said, "There is no try or not try; there is only do or don't do."
=====================
ngw quotes anim-cheers1 - \ "I will strip the beast" \ "the swingarm is just a hunk of metal" \ "gonna maybe ...dunno yet" \ "It's never done, thats the fun." \ "something about this site brings me back"
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