Crazy idea...
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Crazy idea...
So I saw one post a page back with an 1100 where a guy put a set of throttle bodies and elbows from a EFI 1200 and narrowed the airbox plenum, and ran the ecu from a Edelbrock/Weber efi setup. I was curious if a stock 1200 efi ecu and throttle bodies would work on a 1000 well enough to run half decent, or if a guy would need to use an ecu that is fully tuneable. If a standalone ecu was required, a guy could probably modify/graft on a set of hotter and more modern throttle bodies and injectors for significantly cheaper (looking on eBay there's a ton of full sets of 4-cylinder TBs including injectors and wiring, and they separate into 2 pairs of 2 TBs. So... If a guy was seeing the need for a standalone, why not start with a set of TBs from a CBR 900 or the like? If the 1200 ecu was self-adjusting it would recognize the rich/lean burn from the o2 sensor correct? Or am I off in thinking it would self-adjust? Just racking my brain mulling over my options. My stock carbs are in 100 pieces in a box, and I'm just trying to decide if I want to piece them back together (minimally needing a $60 gasket rebuild kit) and still end up with 40 year old technology that needs rebuilding every few years, rejetting, and still leaks occasionally, and metering rods that still wear out and erode over time... OR do I finally go out on a path that has always intrigued me, yet I never had the bravery to try yet and spend $350+?
- robin1731
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Re: Crazy idea...
Well, a Randakk kit is more than $40. But is the only way to go IMO Once rebuilt they won't need it for a very long time if you ride the bike. There are guys that did their carbs several years ago and haven't touched them since. Mine were done in 2006 and haven't been touched since.
Any EFI will take a lot of mods to work. There are a few here working on them now.
Any EFI will take a lot of mods to work. There are a few here working on them now.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- fish
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Re: Crazy idea...
if you get a MAF based EFI off of a car I would start there.
speed density lacks flexability.
Just find a small displacement car & take everything.
the newer the better B/C OBDII is easier to troubleshoot
1996 ford Aspire would be perfect. 1.3L & MAF/MAP system
To "tune" it I would put an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to adjust rich/lean
and tinker with the ignition system to prevent pinging
speed density lacks flexability.
Just find a small displacement car & take everything.
the newer the better B/C OBDII is easier to troubleshoot
1996 ford Aspire would be perfect. 1.3L & MAF/MAP system
To "tune" it I would put an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to adjust rich/lean
and tinker with the ignition system to prevent pinging
Timothy Mark Fisher
Catalina Arizona
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Catalina Arizona
"ride it.. don't be one of those guys who will fix it 'til it's broken" (JDVorchek)
"It is not logic or economics that drive a motorcyclist but passion!" (bugdaddy66)
"I fully agree with fish, well at least 27% of the time."(Casper)
"Why do you have to ruin a perfectly good thread with common sense"(Placerville)
"my best guess for an answer would be a stream of complex expletives" (Transitman)
"I like a cold beer with my beer" (OldeWing)
"Most of us like the sport of wrenching too." (fred camper)
"Now go ride the heck out of it, til mother says do your chores"(Gowing)
"I agree with Fish" (Salukispeed)
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Re: Crazy idea...
1996 Ford Aspire huh... Then build my own aluminum plate 'plenum' and TIG the original elbows to it, and bore a hole in each elbow for each injector... Kinda like your thinking... So you think a OBD2 would be better and I could just hook up a piggyback like a SAFC to it to lean/rich it a hair...
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Re: Crazy idea...
Maybe not... A piggyback is gonna cost the same as the base microsquirt ecu will run. Might as well get the benefits of a late model set of bike individual throttle bodies outta the deal.
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Re: Crazy idea...
Figure if I'm gonna do it, I'd be better off to do it once, do it right, and learn how to tweak it so I can duplicate the process on future projects. I'll probably piece together the stock carbs and rebuild them just to get it going for this year, then start collecting necessary bits and pieces to do a full ITB and microsquirt setup for next year. Like I said, a set of modern sport bike throttle bodies with all the injectors, sensors, and wires can be scored off eBay for about the same cost as the stinkin carb rebuild kit, then it's just the LS1 coils and microsquirt, and a couple more sensors to have it all set I think. I can machine up my own trigger wheel for a hall-effect sensor and etc, as well as fabricate a different airbox or manifold if necessary, that's easy. I machine parts, weld parts, and solder wiring daily for my profession, it's just the computer and programming and tuning side of things that I'm kinda a newbie at.
- fish
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Re: Crazy idea...
Davey I was thinking even simpler.. just as a proof of concept..
pick a car, any small displacement car- with MAF.. & swipe all the EFI components off of it, I mention the Aspire B/C it is MAF W/ MAP. This makes for a wide range of operating parameters.
I believe a system that is controlled by MAF & MAP would self adapt to almost any motor. No tuning or piggyback!
Also the crank sensor for the EFI is in the distributator & I bet with luck& a little research, the system could get a usable signal from the GoldWing ignition pulse generator
Build a plenum-box that replaces the stock carbs & plenum.
Bolt the TB on top
mount the injectors in the top of the fabricated plenum ... this would make good accessibility and easy plumbing.
pick a car, any small displacement car- with MAF.. & swipe all the EFI components off of it, I mention the Aspire B/C it is MAF W/ MAP. This makes for a wide range of operating parameters.
I believe a system that is controlled by MAF & MAP would self adapt to almost any motor. No tuning or piggyback!
Also the crank sensor for the EFI is in the distributator & I bet with luck& a little research, the system could get a usable signal from the GoldWing ignition pulse generator
Build a plenum-box that replaces the stock carbs & plenum.
Bolt the TB on top
mount the injectors in the top of the fabricated plenum ... this would make good accessibility and easy plumbing.
Timothy Mark Fisher
Catalina Arizona
"ride it.. don't be one of those guys who will fix it 'til it's broken" (JDVorchek)
"It is not logic or economics that drive a motorcyclist but passion!" (bugdaddy66)
"I fully agree with fish, well at least 27% of the time."(Casper)
"Why do you have to ruin a perfectly good thread with common sense"(Placerville)
"my best guess for an answer would be a stream of complex expletives" (Transitman)
"I like a cold beer with my beer" (OldeWing)
"Most of us like the sport of wrenching too." (fred camper)
"Now go ride the heck out of it, til mother says do your chores"(Gowing)
"I agree with Fish" (Salukispeed)
Catalina Arizona
"ride it.. don't be one of those guys who will fix it 'til it's broken" (JDVorchek)
"It is not logic or economics that drive a motorcyclist but passion!" (bugdaddy66)
"I fully agree with fish, well at least 27% of the time."(Casper)
"Why do you have to ruin a perfectly good thread with common sense"(Placerville)
"my best guess for an answer would be a stream of complex expletives" (Transitman)
"I like a cold beer with my beer" (OldeWing)
"Most of us like the sport of wrenching too." (fred camper)
"Now go ride the heck out of it, til mother says do your chores"(Gowing)
"I agree with Fish" (Salukispeed)
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Re: Crazy idea...
Ok so I've lined up a set of TBs off of a 07 CBR 600 with injectors, fuel rail, and tps included for $18, the injector wiring harness and plugs for $6, the microsquirt ecu is $339, 4 GM coils is gonna be $32 ($8 each) what else am I gonna need? A wideband O2 sensor, $45, and wideband lambda controller, $45.
Is that all?
Simple is good, but the idea of adapting a car system is flawed as its not adjustable, and most run off of the car distributor (at least the most tunable 4-cyl ones, Hondas) so I'd need to adapt a Honda car distributor to my bike, plus the massive amount of wiring, and the ecus aren't small by any means, and most of the time with anything newer they are interconnected with the car's other systems so if it's missing the tire air pressure monitoring system controller, it goes into limp mode. I think modifying a car system is far more work (and money in the long run, as to get it to adjust at all, I'd need a $300+ piggyback system to trick the car ecu) than it's worth.
Is that all?
Simple is good, but the idea of adapting a car system is flawed as its not adjustable, and most run off of the car distributor (at least the most tunable 4-cyl ones, Hondas) so I'd need to adapt a Honda car distributor to my bike, plus the massive amount of wiring, and the ecus aren't small by any means, and most of the time with anything newer they are interconnected with the car's other systems so if it's missing the tire air pressure monitoring system controller, it goes into limp mode. I think modifying a car system is far more work (and money in the long run, as to get it to adjust at all, I'd need a $300+ piggyback system to trick the car ecu) than it's worth.
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Re: Crazy idea...
Plus my local junkyards would probably want $300 just for all the wiring and efi parts off of said crappy 20 year old ford aspire haha
- ericheath
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Re: Crazy idea...
To answer your first question, slicing the 1200 plenum to fit an 1100 will also fit a 1000. The engines share the same stroke and spacing. Will the injection be metered right? Doubtful. Easiest way to success is rebuild of your carbs or a different set, but we all would love to see economical ways to go to EFI. It is going to take time and tinkering no matter what. If you choose to do it, take pics and keep us in the loop.
Either JB or RBz has a project going using auto parts. I don't recall seeing much from him in a while.
Either JB or RBz has a project going using auto parts. I don't recall seeing much from him in a while.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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Re: Crazy idea...
Yeah I just read the post from beginning to end started by socrace. So it seems like going microsquirt would be the cheapest option really. (Alternate motives in doing this vs carbs is future adaptability to install power adders later, but one thing at a time...)
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Re: Crazy idea...
If the last few years of Ford Aspire ecu was able to tune itself so easily, I'm sure more people would be stealing their fuel injection parts.
- CYBORG
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Re: Crazy idea...
The title of the post is "crazy idea",........yes it is
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
- Rat
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Re: Crazy idea...
My tried and true formula for keeping the stock carbs in top form .....
Fill tank with nice clean gas ..... ride 200 miles ..... fill tank with nice clean gas ..... ride 200 miles ..... fill .....
Gord
Fill tank with nice clean gas ..... ride 200 miles ..... fill tank with nice clean gas ..... ride 200 miles ..... fill .....
Gord
"I'd rather Ride than Shine"
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
- irishcarbomb
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Re: Crazy idea...
If you're going for cheap and easy, rebuild the carbs and ride your bike.
If you're not using the stock coils and ignition system then you need a way to get a tach signal (trigger wheel, vr sensor). Also need a fuel pump, filter, lines, coolant temp sensor, air intake temp sensor, fuel pressure regulator, etc.
Here is some good info on the microsquirt http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Mic ... e-3.4.html
It is not impossible, but also not a small project.
If you're not using the stock coils and ignition system then you need a way to get a tach signal (trigger wheel, vr sensor). Also need a fuel pump, filter, lines, coolant temp sensor, air intake temp sensor, fuel pressure regulator, etc.
Here is some good info on the microsquirt http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Mic ... e-3.4.html
It is not impossible, but also not a small project.
1983 GL1100 Fuel Injected Turbo Build Thread
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