some comments about the standard point ignition

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mikenixon
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some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #1 by mikenixon » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:42 pm

This is not the best venue to say what could be said (and I already have said a lot elsewhere) but one basic thing comes to mind as I look over the material I have assembled to produce another Motorcycle Project how-to booklet.

The one thing I want most to say is how crappy non-original points sets are! Honda used only TEC (Toyo Electrical Co.) and ND (now known as Denso) for original equipment points. The aftermarket does not serve us well. Why? They're junk. I could go on about how nearly impossible Diachi points are to dwell, how inferior their contact surfaces are, and much more. But let me simply show a couple of pictures. Granted these are SOHC examples and not Gold Wing, but they illustrate the Diachi manufacturing ethic nonetheless.


Following is the stock TEC. Note the smoothly machined pivot post, and the presence of a thrust washer.

Image

Now the Diachi example. Roughly machined and no thrust washer. Telling, this, don't you think?

Image


Now let's look at the corresponding surface on the pivoting arms. First the stock example. Note the brass insert, a kind of bearing for the pivoting contact arm.

Image

And the Diachi points. No insert, the arm runs right on its insulating phonelic material.

Image


Bear in mind this is just the beginning. Lord willing I will have both articles on my website and a how-to booklet sometime this year detailing more about this issue. :)
Mike Nixon

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #2 by Whiskerfish » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:26 pm

Very nice, As someone that enjoys tuning very much I look forward to reading the whole thing!
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #3 by mikenixon » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:40 pm

You do, don't you? I have heard you referred to as the carb sync god. :)
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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #4 by sunnbobb » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:27 pm

Nice facts there Mike. Very good.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #5 by Whiskerfish » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:29 pm

I certainly would not go that far but to me the tweaking toward the end of a project is the most rewarding. I learned tracking and balancing of Helicopter rotor systems (considered by some a Black art similar to tuning) from a Master decades ago and I think that is where the tuning bug comes from. A small adjustment here must be countered and softened over there type of thing. People under estimate what good tune can do.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #6 by mikenixon » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:33 pm

Well put! Yes, in this area little things do indeed mean a lot!
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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #7 by Toehead » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:07 am

As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that that thing was designed by the finance department.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #8 by salukispeed » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:21 pm

Nicely said Mike

There are many things that OE can be the better quality even at the higher price. There are always the exception and places to save money.
When it comes to tinkering and tuning I was always reminded as a young man that "everything affects everything". and the devil is in the details. their are probably lots of sayings and words of whisdom that reflect this.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #9 by Toehead » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Also notice the grease reservoir on the stock points.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #10 by mikenixon » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:32 am

Toehead wrote:Also notice the grease reservoir on the stock points.


Yup.
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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #11 by fish » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:20 am

I have never replaced a set for exactly this reason.
Carefully polish and clean W/ fine emory then 600Grit sandpaper
IMHO the important thing is to clean off all the grit from the abrasives B/C the are semi conducters/.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #12 by El_Taco » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:31 am

fish wrote:I have never replaced a set for exactly this reason.
Carefully polish and clean W/ fine emory then 600Grit sandpaper
IMHO the important thing is to clean off all the grit from the abrasives B/C the are semi conducters/.


I've never bought a set of points, I'll just buy another low mileage junker and cob them off of that. A little clean, a little shine, and a little gap. A little vroom.

I must admit I don't set them with a dwell meter, nor do I set my timing with a light. One of these days, I'll break down and do it right.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #13 by El_Taco » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:47 am

My edit button disappeared. Can you post us a part number for the set, or numbers for the respective parts?

This could be worth investigating as to whether or not Standard carries them. Considering I get the average set of points for about $6, I could post some pictures to further add to your comparison.

I would consider Standard to be mediocre, but useable. At least, they should line up, maybe with a hint of persuasion from the right pair of pliers. I replace a set of points every month, sometimes several, mostly on early Ford and Ferguson farm tractors. Standard parts tend to go right in.

A&I is our ag/industrial parts supplier, and they sell the cheapest no label (long string of expletives) that I imagine anyone could export out of third world countries. When the contacts don't even come close to each other, or the breaker arm is made from plastic, and distorts in the packaging, you know you've got some real nice stuff. Countless times I've had to make do with the stationary contact out of the box, combined with a good enough factory Ford breaker arm from the 40s. If it's made from Bakelite, it's still good.

Of course, they also sell pump parts that fit the pump, but then the pump doesn't go back in the machine. I can't even imagine how many times I had to grind the corners off of new valve chambers before lapping in original valves with a special tool on the original guide, because the aftermarket internals weren't worth trying to use.

Oh, the joys of the aftermarket.

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #14 by Whiskerfish » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:04 pm

Honda still sells the entire plate built up with both sets of points for about 48 I believe. As often as I find them with buggered up screws this is one of the things I keep on the shelf.

Stock
Left points 30204-292-003
Right points 30203-292-003

Plate assembly 30200-371-004

those are the stock Honda part numbers not the upgraded points as recommended by many.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!

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Re: some comments about the standard point ignition

Post #15 by mikenixon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:21 pm

Whiskerfish wrote:Honda still sells the entire plate built up with both sets of points for about 48 I believe. As often as I find them with buggered up screws this is one of the things I keep on the shelf.

Stock
Left points 30204-292-003
Right points 30203-292-003

Plate assembly 30200-371-004

those are the stock Honda part numbers not the upgraded points as recommended by many.


Yes, but Whisker, aren't they "pattern" parts, i.e. non original? I believe Honda is selling Diachi now.
Mike Nixon


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