Allen screws
Moderator: Whiskerfish
- mikenixon
- Early 'Wing Guru
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Allen screws
Allen screws, or more properly, socket head screws. What about 'em?
These days, having my own shop, I use Allen screws in carburetors and engines occasionally and sparingly. But when carburetors and bikes arrive with them already fitted, it's seldom a good thing. Nine times out of ten they are the wrong length, lack washers, or are overtightened, with the last being the most common by a wide margin.
As with so many things sold by the vampires of the powersports industry -- the patently ignorant and frequently indifferent aftermarket parts suppliers -- Allen screw kits almost universally contain incorrect length screws, demonstrating a distain for the role thread length plays in vulnerable aluminum parts' threads. And, instead of the lockwashers originally found on vintage Keihin carburetors the kits include either plain washers or none at all. Argh!
And carbs equipped with them arrive in my shop always overtightened, so much so that loosening them ("pop") invariably requires the traditional L-shaped "key" wrench, revealing such gross over-torquing of the screws it makes me cringe. The correct tool is a screwdriver type hex driver. It prevents the screw from being torsioned any more than the original Phillips screw would be, and it's a very handy tool besides. Overtightening Allens using any other tool is virtually inevitable, and I can remember many times as a dealer mechanic when I would service a customer's bike and find several examples of pulled threads clinging to "screw kit" Allens that I removed.
These then are the reasons that, though I am on friendly terms with them today, Allen screws did then and continue still to accompany poor workmanship in far too many cases.
These days, having my own shop, I use Allen screws in carburetors and engines occasionally and sparingly. But when carburetors and bikes arrive with them already fitted, it's seldom a good thing. Nine times out of ten they are the wrong length, lack washers, or are overtightened, with the last being the most common by a wide margin.
As with so many things sold by the vampires of the powersports industry -- the patently ignorant and frequently indifferent aftermarket parts suppliers -- Allen screw kits almost universally contain incorrect length screws, demonstrating a distain for the role thread length plays in vulnerable aluminum parts' threads. And, instead of the lockwashers originally found on vintage Keihin carburetors the kits include either plain washers or none at all. Argh!
And carbs equipped with them arrive in my shop always overtightened, so much so that loosening them ("pop") invariably requires the traditional L-shaped "key" wrench, revealing such gross over-torquing of the screws it makes me cringe. The correct tool is a screwdriver type hex driver. It prevents the screw from being torsioned any more than the original Phillips screw would be, and it's a very handy tool besides. Overtightening Allens using any other tool is virtually inevitable, and I can remember many times as a dealer mechanic when I would service a customer's bike and find several examples of pulled threads clinging to "screw kit" Allens that I removed.
These then are the reasons that, though I am on friendly terms with them today, Allen screws did then and continue still to accompany poor workmanship in far too many cases.
Mike Nixon
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
- rcmatt007
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Re: Allen screws
Therein lies the old adage..... tighten it until it breaks and then back off 1/4 turn.
I have found it best (yes I have Allen screws on parts) using the key with the long und in the screw to avoid the temptation to overtighten.
I have found it best (yes I have Allen screws on parts) using the key with the long und in the screw to avoid the temptation to overtighten.
- mikenixon
- Early 'Wing Guru
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Re: Allen screws
Yup.rcmatt007 wrote:I have found it best (yes I have Allen screws on parts) using the key with the long und in the screw to avoid the temptation to overtighten.
Mike Nixon
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
- flyday58
- Chrome Member
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:03 am
- Location: Cloudcroft NM
Re: Allen screws
I think a lot of the proliferation of these screw kits is that it keeps someone from having to go through the hardware store to try to assemble one yourself, and then when some lengths aren't correct to have to surf online to find them. "Fits 75-79 Gl1000, 79-83 CB750/900/1100/CBX, 53-65 Radio Flyer wagons, all Edsels." Good enough for me!
Good article, well said Mike.
Good article, well said Mike.
- mikenixon
- Early 'Wing Guru
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:51 am
- Location: Prescott, AZ
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Re: Allen screws
flyday58 wrote:"Fits 75-79 Gl1000, 79-83 CB750/900/1100/CBX, 53-65 Radio Flyer wagons, all Edsels."
Mike Nixon
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
-
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4646
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:52 pm
- Location: up by the Canadian border in WA state
Re: Allen screws
since ya mentioned lockwashers I wanted to throw out & share some possible valuable info on the subject I learned about only a couple of hears ago.
Nord Lock washers
may not be suitable for all applications but they're pretty amazing.
and evidently now available on Bezos-azon...
Nord Lock washers
may not be suitable for all applications but they're pretty amazing.
and evidently now available on Bezos-azon...
- mikenixon
- Early 'Wing Guru
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:51 am
- Location: Prescott, AZ
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Re: Allen screws
Interesting. I find the stock type plenty adequate though. And probably 1/10 the price!heraldhamster wrote:since ya mentioned lockwashers I wanted to throw out & share some possible valuable info on the subject I learned about only a couple of hears ago.
Nord Lock washers
may not be suitable for all applications but they're pretty amazing.
and evidently now available on Bezos-azon...
Mike Nixon
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
www.motorcycleproject.com
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/ ... _carb.html
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/lies_ether.html
-
- Honored Life Member
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- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:52 pm
- Location: up by the Canadian border in WA state
Re: Allen screws
no argument. we use basic split rings all of our parts washers, pumps & industrial heaters.
they are definitely a specialty application part. we use these on fuel and oil strainers for U.S. Navy ships. basically, a lot of stuff that just cannot afford to fail.
I think the design came from aerospace industry. but I could just be blowing smoke on that.
they are definitely a specialty application part. we use these on fuel and oil strainers for U.S. Navy ships. basically, a lot of stuff that just cannot afford to fail.
I think the design came from aerospace industry. but I could just be blowing smoke on that.
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- Honored Life Member
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- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:52 pm
- Location: up by the Canadian border in WA state
Re: Allen screws
heraldhamster wrote:no argument. we use basic split rings on all of our parts washers, pumps & industrial heaters.
they are definitely a specialty application part. we use these on fuel and oil strainers for U.S. Navy ships. basically, a lot of stuff that just cannot afford to fail.
I think the design came from aerospace industry. but I could just be blowing smoke on that.
-
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4646
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:52 pm
- Location: up by the Canadian border in WA state
Re: Allen screws
oops. am I missing the edit button? all I see are the quotes and obviously not paying attention... sheesh.
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
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Re: Allen screws
What do you want to do? I believe the edit button is only on for a short after posting. Except for mods.heraldhamster wrote:oops. am I missing the edit button? all I see are the quotes and obviously not paying attention... sheesh.
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