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Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:22 am
by mikenixon
Note the position of the flyweights when assembled. Because the Dyna rotor is thicker, the flyweights are partly deployed at rest.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:26 am
by ericheath
Seeing if I get this. This pic is stolen from one of Mike’s previous posts.
So what you’re saying is the increased thickness of the inner diameter of the slotted portion, causes the advance mechanism to be partly deployed?
- 5C8D7F2C-DC37-46F5-89CB-A2F6EA41F0C5.jpeg (64.83 KiB) Viewed 1486 times
- F7E5F4C7-5DF2-452E-A343-670A84CC12E1.jpeg (115.36 KiB) Viewed 1486 times
It probably changes the rate of the advance at first as well.
And these are two areas you could remove material because on the other end, full advance rests here and is also limited?
- 89C5CB00-BA3C-45D5-92FB-278F48041FB3.jpeg (173.78 KiB) Viewed 1486 times
This of course changes it from going back to points if ever needed.
It’s too bad the optical C5 types aren’t a bit more affordable. Can’t beat them for accuracy and ease of installation, and on-the-fly adjustability.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:29 am
by ericheath
Easing the sharp edges of the slot in the rotor might also work and keep the advancer stock?
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am
by CYBORG
ericheath wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:26 am
Seeing if I get this. This pic is stolen from one of Mike’s previous posts.
So what you’re saying is the increased thickness of the inner diameter of the slotted portion, causes the advance mechanism to be partly deployed?
5C8D7F2C-DC37-46F5-89CB-A2F6EA41F0C5.jpeg
F7E5F4C7-5DF2-452E-A343-670A84CC12E1.jpeg
It probably changes the rate of the advance at first as well.
And these are two areas you could remove material because on the other end, full advance rests here and is also limited?
89C5CB00-BA3C-45D5-92FB-278F48041FB3.jpeg
This of course changes it from going back to points if ever needed.
It’s too bad the optical C5 types aren’t a bit more affordable. Can’t beat them for accuracy and ease of installation, and on-the-fly adjustability.
I have a C5 system. And when you consider it also comes with a coil, wires, etc. it's not that more expensive, considering the performance gains
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:06 am
by mikenixon
What I do is thin the inner surface of the stop ears slightly, hmm, maybe 25%. That's all. Hmm, as for rate of the curve, that never occurred to me but I guess partial deployment also means partly stretched springs also, meaning the initial advance increase could be delayed. But I have always worked to the partial deployment thing, correcting that in order to get the full curve back.
By the way, even if you do the timing statically as I do, you can still use the static method to gauge how much to remove from the stops, if any is needed. Always check the timing at both idle and full advance before making any modifications. It is possible Dyna has different specs of thickness of the rotor. Anyway, you can check full advance timing statically by putting a stepped or cupped washer in place of the normal washer at the end of the advancer. This will temporarily keep the advancer at full advance. Or if your fingers are strong you don't need the washer.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:10 am
by mikenixon
I should add here that I am not proposing this modification to the Dyna setup as a fix for any particular or any possible running symptom. I see the timing overall as more a cause of issues than I do timing whose curve is shortened. In fact, look at my video of a well-tuned engine on my website. Careful setup of the ignition system (including but not limited to timing), cam belt adjustment, valves set at 0.006", and a cafeful, knowledgable carb rebuild are what went into making that result. By the way, that bike has a Dyna and it required much more work than it should have to time correctly. I assume all of you time your Dynas by watching for spark at a grounded plug and noting if it cooincides with the F mark?
https://youtu.be/CDnzwDWhN24[/Video]
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:42 pm
by dontwantapickle
ericheath wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:26 am
Seeing if I get this. This pic is stolen from one of Mike’s previous posts.
So what you’re saying is the increased thickness of the inner diameter of the slotted portion, causes the advance mechanism to be partly deployed?
5C8D7F2C-DC37-46F5-89CB-A2F6EA41F0C5.jpeg
I'm not totally sure what Mike is saying either.
As stated earlier, I measured stock and dyna rotors and the OD of all 3 measured Exactly the same at 18cm.
when installed on the cam. there is no difference in the location of the flyweights.
I see no indication of static timing being advanced at all.
I'd like to think that the engineers at Dyna would have the wearwithall to have taken size into account when designing their rotors, especially when it would affect something like the advance.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:11 pm
by mikenixon
Every Dyna S rotor made for a vintage Honda I have seen has been larger in diameter than the stock rotor. Maybe in recent years this has changed. Are yours aluminum?
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:13 pm
by mikenixon
dontwantapickle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:42 pm I'd like to think that the engineers at Dyna would have the wearwithall to have taken size into account when designing their rotors, especially when it would affect something like the advance.
Whoa. That in my view is putting faith in aftermarjet parts designers that is woefully undeserved.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:43 pm
by dontwantapickle
mikenixon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:11 pm
Every Dyna S rotor made for a vintage Honda I have seen has been larger in diameter than the stock rotor. Maybe in recent years this has changed. Are yours aluminum?
maybe their QC has gotten better, I don't know, But.....
Dyna S aluminum rotor:
- dyna rotors2.jpg (129.31 KiB) Viewed 1442 times
Stock Honda rotor:
- dyna rotors3.jpg (151.94 KiB) Viewed 1442 times
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:02 pm
by Old Fogey
CYBORG wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am
ericheath wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:26 am
Seeing if I get this. This pic is stolen from one of Mike’s previous posts.
So what you’re saying is the increased thickness of the inner diameter of the slotted portion, causes the advance mechanism to be partly deployed?
5C8D7F2C-DC37-46F5-89CB-A2F6EA41F0C5.jpeg
F7E5F4C7-5DF2-452E-A343-670A84CC12E1.jpeg
It probably changes the rate of the advance at first as well.
And these are two areas you could remove material because on the other end, full advance rests here and is also limited?
89C5CB00-BA3C-45D5-92FB-278F48041FB3.jpeg
This of course changes it from going back to points if ever needed.
It’s too bad the optical C5 types aren’t a bit more affordable. Can’t beat them for accuracy and ease of installation, and on-the-fly adjustability.
I have a C5 system. And when you consider it also comes with a coil, wires, etc. it's not that more expensive, considering the performance gains
As far as I'm aware, the C5 system has not been available for some time.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:04 pm
by mikenixon
dontwantapickle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:43 pm
mikenixon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:11 pm
Every Dyna S rotor made for a vintage Honda I have seen has been larger in diameter than the stock rotor. Maybe in recent years this has changed. Are yours aluminum?
maybe their QC has gotten better, I don't know, But.....
Dyna S aluminum rotor:
dyna rotors2.jpg
Stock Honda rotor:
dyna rotors3.jpg
Based on that, I'd say so.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:52 pm
by CYBORG
Old Fogey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:02 pm
CYBORG wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am
ericheath wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:26 am
Seeing if I get this. This pic is stolen from one of Mike’s previous posts.
So what you’re saying is the increased thickness of the inner diameter of the slotted portion, causes the advance mechanism to be partly deployed?
5C8D7F2C-DC37-46F5-89CB-A2F6EA41F0C5.jpeg
F7E5F4C7-5DF2-452E-A343-670A84CC12E1.jpeg
It probably changes the rate of the advance at first as well.
And these are two areas you could remove material because on the other end, full advance rests here and is also limited?
89C5CB00-BA3C-45D5-92FB-278F48041FB3.jpeg
This of course changes it from going back to points if ever needed.
It’s too bad the optical C5 types aren’t a bit more affordable. Can’t beat them for accuracy and ease of installation, and on-the-fly adjustability.
I have a C5 system. And when you consider it also comes with a coil, wires, etc. it's not that more expensive, considering the performance gains
As far as I'm aware, the C5 system has not been available for some time.
[/ quote]
No idea if it is still available. Only commenting on the value, compared to dyna systems
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:26 pm
by wannabridin
C5's are no longer produced.
Re: More on GL1000 ignition
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:17 pm
by Sidecar Bob
mikenixon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:25 am
If you own a GL1000 you simply must learn its ignition. Nothing else you do maintenance-wise will affect the engine tune as dramatically. And having a Dyna or other points replacement system does not let you off the hook.
I like to think I have at least enough understanding of how points ignitions work to understand what my limitations regarding setting them up are. For me changing to a Dyna S meant that once it was set up properly I didn't need to worry about trying to remember how everything related to the result when the points needed attention and I hadn't thought about it for the last couple of years.
If a Dyna, was the advancer modified to work properly with the magnetic rotor, were the two pickups synchronized
Based on the discussion in this thread I believe my Dyna's rotor didn't need to be modfied.
were the fiberglass plug wires replaced with real wire
I tried "resistor plug wires" for a while but stopped using them long before I installed the Dyna S
were both sides of the ignition timed and not just one?
I had worked on the points enough times that setting one side and not the other wouldn't have felt right.
In my view, getting a Dyna to work correctly is more work than tuning the stock setup.
Perhaps, but if done right you only have to do it once.
Well, twice in my case, but only because I kept the Dyna S when I changed engines.