Bin that damper plate!

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jake2012
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #31 by jake2012 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:05 pm

Am I reading this wrong or is it being said to place a steel disc up against the alloy clutch hub spring carrier? If so this is asking for major trouble in that a few good slips and the surface reserved for a friction pad to lockup to will eventually be distroyed by slipage. metal on metal is not going to last. wouldn't be better to just install a friction plate between the b plate after deburing ? Or better yet two new steel discs with a friction plate between them in place of the B plate. Or re-rivet with steel? Please correct me if I'm reading this wrong. anim-cheers1
Jake's past rides
1973 Suzuki TC 100
1976 Suzuki GT 550
1983 Honda ATC250R
1975 Elsinore 250
1977 custom hawg chopper
1952 Pan Shovel
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Old Fogey
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #32 by Old Fogey » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:47 pm

The steel plate against the alloy hub cannot slip as it is held by the teeth on the hub. That is why I specified that position for it.
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jake2012
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #33 by jake2012 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:14 pm

Old Fogey wrote:The steel plate against the alloy hub cannot slip as it is held by the teeth on the hub. That is why I specified that position for it.

I got it now it's acting as a shim. I guess it's allright as long as when the clutch is pulled in, it doesn't disengage the inner hubs splines? A friction disc could never do that due to them being free floating and held by the clutch basket. If it did it would be horrific. In the middle sounds safer? anim-cheers1 :oldies
Last edited by jake2012 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jake's past rides
1973 Suzuki TC 100
1976 Suzuki GT 550
1983 Honda ATC250R
1975 Elsinore 250
1977 custom hawg chopper
1952 Pan Shovel
2x 76 gl1000s

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Old Fogey
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #34 by Old Fogey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:30 am

Not quite following that. How could it 'disengage the hub splines'?

There needs to be two extra steel pates to make up for the width of the Plate 'B'; one goes in the middle of the pack where that came out of. The other goes in the position as above. Either that or the springs would need to be shimmed or the spring pillars would need to be shortened to make up the one extra plate difference, which will also increase the spring pressure a little, but you might run out of adjustment at the operating arm adjuster screw.
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
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rod willis
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #35 by rod willis » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:58 am

I just want to say that i have a 75 and a 77 which both are set up with out
the B plate and they both work just fine i myself like the clutch action
better this way the clutch is more positive then before,i ride two up heavy
and pull a trailer alot and have had no problems with eaither one yet.
And as for the bottom plate it just sets there it dose not spin on the pressur plate
as most think it dose.
Rod
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jake2012
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #36 by jake2012 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:21 am

Thanks for clearing that up for me :oldies I only read to buy one extra plain disk and could not figure how it would work with two friction disk mating in the middle and how if your clutch pack is say, normally 45mm thick and your removing 5mm and only adding back 2mm with one plain disk how it could possibly clamp/ lockup. I want to do this to my clutch this winter ( if I don't have to do it sooner) and was wondering if you think it would be ok to use the half of the buffer disk / B plate with cogs as the second plain disk I put against the spring carrier face and the new double sided one in the middle? For me $ is $ and I like to save where I can. anim-cheers1
Last edited by jake2012 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:53 am, edited 4 times in total.
Jake's past rides
1973 Suzuki TC 100
1976 Suzuki GT 550
1983 Honda ATC250R
1975 Elsinore 250
1977 custom hawg chopper
1952 Pan Shovel
2x 76 gl1000s

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jake2012
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #37 by jake2012 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:45 am

As for the disk up against the spring carriers face falling off I was thinking more of the guys who convert or want to convert their cable setups for hydrolics and are not carefull in making the push rod to the proper length with your fix in place. Am I wrong in saying that if the the push rod is to long that it can cause the 5mm engagement/travel of the splines of the disk carrier to disengage the spring carrier thus allowing room for the disk to drop and jam and or ruin the clutch; I guess what I need to know is: what limits the travel / seperation, (other than pushrod length),of the two carriers when you pull the clutch in and the 2 halves move on the 5mm engagement of the splines to release tension on clutch pack?
Jake's past rides
1973 Suzuki TC 100
1976 Suzuki GT 550
1983 Honda ATC250R
1975 Elsinore 250
1977 custom hawg chopper
1952 Pan Shovel
2x 76 gl1000s

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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #38 by Old Fogey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm

That simply can't happen.The spring carrier will hit off the clutch basket before that could happen. I've got a carrier that shows slight marks from that happening, where I guess someone had over adjusted the clutch. Plus the carrier has teeth that correspond to the spaces between the teeth on the hub, so at the worst, the last plate would move onto the carrier.
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
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bob
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #39 by bob » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:32 am

I posted this on another thread.....

I've had an issue with my 1100 since I bought it two years ago. Sometimes when I'm first starting out, I get a loud buzzing sound from the clutch, and it's a bit grabby. It's been gettin g louder and more frequent in the last month or so. I'm worried that I'm headed for a bad day in my future. This could perhaps be what I'm hearing/feeling?

Bob
75 GL1000, blue-green, 49K
81 GL1100 basket case
86 Aspencade, runs good, no clutch
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Jester
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #40 by Jester » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:51 am

Sounds like it could very well be. Time to open er up and take a gander.
Jester

1976 GL1000 Stock....... Well, Kinda.

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Sidecar Bob
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Re:

Post #41 by Sidecar Bob » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:35 pm

Old Fogey wrote:Obviously, since the damper plate is in effect a plain plate, it has to be replaced in the middle of the pack with a proper plain plate.
I added the other plate at the spring carrier end to make up the difference in thickness. So you need two more plain plates, not one.
Overall the pack thickness increases by about 0.5mm but there is still plenty of free play left.

This is very important: The extra plate must be next to the Pressure Plate, not the Clutch Center. The grooves in the Clutch Center do not go all the way to the end so the plate will not make solid contact with it. I think this may have contributed to the failure of the wide tab friction plate and the damage to the plain plate that was between it and the Clutch Center.

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Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
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Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Old Fogey
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #42 by Old Fogey » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:17 pm

That's what I meant Bob, when I called it the spring carrier. Bad nomenclature on my part. :oops:
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous! :-D

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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #43 by Sidecar Bob » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:46 pm

Right. I interpreted your "spring carrier" to be the same as Honda calls "Pressure Plate" but I put mine next to the Clutch Center instead because I didn't think it would matter and when the friction plate failed it scored the friction area on the CC so I assumed that having a plain steel plate between the friction plate and the CC would provide a new surface for the plate to work against.

But it didn't.

I'll rephrase: It is VERY IMPORTANT to put the plain plate next to the spring carrier (Pressure Plate) and not next to the Clutch Center.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....

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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #44 by ericheath » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:35 am

So this extra B plate is from a donor bike? I can't seem to find them anywhere else. I'm going through my 1200 clutches soon, one 85, and one 87.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
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Re: Bin that damper plate!

Post #45 by elslimdiablo » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:35 pm

Hey guys, I dont mean to beat this horse, I'm new to Wings as of last weekend. I have a 77 1000 and already have the engine out for some repairs. I am following along and making updates to this low mile bike while its apart. I just want to get this straight - I remove the dampner, install one B plate in its place and install the other one at the pressure plate end of the stack. I'm also making sure the two plates equal out to 0.05 mm. Sorry if this seem redundant -Rob
1977 GL1000
1977 RD400
1975 CB360T(in the family since new and restored)
1975 GL1000
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1959 T20 Tiger cub S
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