GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

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Greyrider
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #61 by Greyrider » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:10 pm

Just an update to this thread ... I am currently re-doing my cooling system and wanted to make sure about the current best option. The Shell tech tells me that all regular (green ) coolants must pass the copper compatibility standards (so brass is no problem), and further, that the problem that silicates create are that they attack the seals in the water pumps. He recommends their Dexcool coolant.

Info: Dexcool life - 5 yrs before breakdown
Standard Green types 2-3 years before breakdown

One caution with Dexcool,.. Keep it full. If you let it get low and if air mixes into the system for any length of time, there will
likely be metal oxidization. That is where the brown sluge you sometimes see comes from.

Also, Mixtures: 50/50 good to -34 degrees C. (farenheit will be close, they match @ -40)
60/40 good to -62 degrees.

** Any stronger than 60% and the freeeze point starts going the other way. Also as you get stronger from 60%, the
coolant looses it's ability to transfer heat. He remarked on one unhappy customer who thought he was doing a top notch
job and used pure coolant. Problem - warped heads due to over heating.

I mention the stronger mixtures for those of us in the northern climes, we sometimes have to mix it a bit stronger.
As well, Canadian Tire shop man tells me that the probable best bet for me (us) would be their Moto Master Asian Long Life
Coolant. Part # 29-3070-8. Silicant free- good for all asian type motors and a 5 year life span. ($16.99/ 4L) And it is not
diluted.
Hope it helps.
Murray

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #62 by Sidecar Bob » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:18 pm

FWIW, I am using Unival Extended Life coolant from Home Hardware these days, simply because I go past there on my way home so I bought it there when I was doing the head last year. It says it is compatible with all coolants no matter the colour and is good for 5 years or 250,000 Km.

Yeah - like the coolant is going to be in an engine this old for that long before it has to be drained for some reason or other. Last year the head. This year the belts & idlers. Next year who knows? I think I actually left the coolant in for 3 years once but I might be optimistic in that...
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #63 by Hal » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Oh good. That means no more need for Hondaline coolant at 25 euros for 4 litres..... action1
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nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...

so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #64 by Whiskerfish » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:06 pm

Sidecar Bob wrote:SNIP
Yeah - like the coolant is going to be in an engine this old for that long before it has to be drained for some reason or other. Last year the head. This year the belts & idlers. Next year who knows? I think I actually left the coolant in for 3 years once but I might be optimistic in that...


Exactly my issue with products like the evans waterless and high dollar oils. With a wet clutch design it does not matter if you run the best oil in the world it should still be changed at reasonable intervals. The same with the coolant. It seems like I seldom get more than 2 years between other maintenance issues that require draining it out. so that takes care of those 2 systems. Add flushing the brakes with fresh every couple of years and the bikes will outlast me lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #65 by Sidecar Bob » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:30 pm

Now if we could figure out a way to get the bikes to change our fluids at regular intervals...... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #66 by Scottinaz » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:53 pm

When dealing with these older bikes, I tend to refer to the technology that was in place at the time of manufacture. Silicate free coolant didnt come along until much later than the bike was made (mid 80's at best, and the bike is a 76), same with the oil, friction modifiers that are the death of a wet clutch simply were not in use at the time of manufacture, so in this case, go with the old tech stuff, such as the universal oils (such as rotella or delo), and any coolant will work (within reason) as long as the change intervals that Honda designed into the systems are used. This isnt to say that newer is not better, but I do believe that in many cases it is unneccissary, both in cost, and performance. as long as the requirements of the manufacturer are met (as of the time of manufacture) then you are on the safe side of prudence.
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #67 by C5Paul » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:43 am

At the dealership level, we took the warnings seriously and used "non silicate" coolant. I've been told by multiple industry level people (although it still may be misinformation being passed on) that silicate warnings didn't exist back in "the day" because coolant manufacturers didn't add clean sand to coolant. Silicate was added to keep corrosion from building up to the point of a cooling system failure. I remember discussing this at factory service schools but again, may have been a wives tail. We'll never know.

Some argue the popularity of non ferrous materials in engines and heads caused this switch (cars started appearing with aluminum blocks and/or heads and corrosion became a bigger problem).
I've personally seen mechanical seal failure as service manager that we suspected was caused by coolant. If the same owner had multiple failures and admitting to using "whatever was on sale" then we blamed the coolant...and to a smaller extent the owner. Although i would also argue certain Kawasaki's had much higher waterpump failure rates than the Yamaha, Honda, and Suzukis we sold.

Interesting note...our 1989 MCI coach bus has a Detroit 2 stroke diesel and a warning label CLEARLY warns to use a "silicate free" coolant only!
Not sure why, but would guess it has a mechanical seal type water pump?? It's supercharged and turbocharged so maybe they run into other issues i am not aware of.

Wow, let's find a coolant expert and get some final answers! Where is Mr. Prestone when you need him?
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #68 by ianstaley » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:53 pm

The coolant rubber hose is not available in the UK from Dayco C71218 so looks like I will need to find an alternative, I have had good success using silicon pipes on my Toyota Supra MK3 so I might just give a Samco dealer a call to see if they can help.

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #69 by Sidecar Bob » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:28 pm

Be sure to post what you find.

The first time I heard the price of Honda rad hoses (back in '91 - the same time I learned the price of Honda rad caps & thermostats) I almost fell over. Then I asked a local parts guy if he had something I could cut and he showed me the Dayco. I have been using them since and have been telling people online to use them since I found the Internet.

BTW: The one that comes with the New 2 You kit is different but it works too.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #70 by NCScooter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:38 pm

I've tried to search this forum for a definitive answer, can't find one. Is it ok to use a radiator flush product (Both Prestone and Zerex make one) that you add to an empty cooling system w/ water, run to operating temp for ~10 minutes, then drain and flush? Should I use less than a full bottle? My 77 GL1000 runs all the way up past the "white fat range" almost to the post, then comes back to wander around up and down that area. My radiator is missing it's wings, anyone got a pair for sale or wish to take a close-up picture w/ scale or measurements so I could fabricate them? My fan does work, new thermostat actually rated 10 degrees cooler than spec., fan switch checked out good on the stove. Temps varied around the radiator per my cheap IR thermometer, but no more than 10 degrees. Thanks, you guys are great!
I need to remember to keep my expectations tiny so I don't end up so whiny.
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #71 by CYBORG » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:43 pm

the temp gauge on the bike is not always the most accurate. use your IR to see what the temp of the engine is when the fan comes on. a flush with full strength should not be a problem, and i would replace the missing wings
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #72 by NCScooter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:59 pm

I been lookin' for the wings, or Wing's wings, have not been able to find them anywhere for sale. There's a whole radiator/fan/wings on ebat for $43. What temps and where (Head, tubes, etc.)should I be looking for? I could fabricate the wings - are they 2 1/2" wide, 45 degree angle or so? Or wider?
I need to remember to keep my expectations tiny so I don't end up so whiny.
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Image 1977 GL1000-The Breeze
I'm so special, my short bus only has two wheels!

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #73 by Sidecar Bob » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:56 pm

Get your cooling system cleaned out and see how it works without the "wings" before you get your shorts in a knot about not having them. I have a GL1000 engine in a GL1100 with the fairing removed. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36118

The "wings" on the 1100 were part of the fairing lowers so mine has not had them since I put it together in '97 and it has never been a problem. I know the weather where you are averages warmer than here but temps over 35c (95f) are not uncommon in August....
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer New Engine Thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....

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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #74 by ritalz » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:02 pm

pm sent to NCScooter
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Re: GL1000/1100 Cooling System Servicing/Silicate Free Myth

Post #75 by NCScooter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:00 pm

Shorts in a knot? Actually it was ~80 here today. Mid-40's tomorrow afternoon. I'm not smart enough to stop ridin' though! Thanks for the advice.
I need to remember to keep my expectations tiny so I don't end up so whiny.
1976 CB400f
Image 1977 GL1000-The Breeze
I'm so special, my short bus only has two wheels!


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