Torquing Head Bolts

Post your "How To", or share tips and tricks about maintenance related to four cylinder Wings. Only registered users can read this forum.

Moderators: Whiskerfish, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
oldiegoldie
Zinc Member
Zinc Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Illinios

Re-torquing head bols

#16

Post by oldiegoldie »

It make sense to re-torque, but do you do it when the engines hot, warm or cold. I'm about to enter that arena and it seems like it would make a difference.
Is there a difference?
1978 GL 1000 Goldwing (Blackie)
1978 GL 100 Goldwing (still under renovation but on the next spring!!)
Missourimike
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1476
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Springfield, MO

Re-torque?

#17

Post by Missourimike »

My Haynes book says it's not necessary to re-torque the head bolts after a period of time. Do it right once and leave it at that.
The sequence of torqueing first at 25%, 50%, etc, until you reach mfg recommendations, is good advice. Brings everything into place slowly, not putting undo strain in any one spot. Just like you would do on a car rim, if you were taught that.
Anti-seize is my first choice for lubricant on the threads. True, some mfgs will give a torque spec in dry form. Others in lubed torque spec. Read the directions recommended. There is a considerable difference.
If one was to ever Re-Torque a bolt at a later date, time, do it while the bolt/stud is COOL. When the mfg tells you to torque to a certain spec, they aren't expecting you to do it with WARM/HOT material.
The difficult can be done in a day. The impossible takes a little longer, if you don't know it can't be done.
'75 GL YelloWing, '73 Norton Commando, '79 CB750, '80 Fiat Spyder, '83 Silverado w/ BB Cad, to name a few.
'79 Black Hondaline/Vetter bagger Tourer
'76 Yello Café to be
'83 CX650C Needs Work
'83 CX650C #2 Daily Rider
'79 Yamaha XS750
10 others in the project/parts pile
oldiegoldie
Zinc Member
Zinc Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Illinios

#18

Post by oldiegoldie »

Thanks Mike, that all good info.
1978 GL 1000 Goldwing (Blackie)
1978 GL 100 Goldwing (still under renovation but on the next spring!!)
User avatar
rdurost
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:03 pm
My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rdurost/

Re:

#19

Post by rdurost »

Morriscatt wrote:So are you guys saying I need to loosen my head bolts and then tighten again at 100 and 1000 miles? I already checked at 100 miles and I simply put on the wrench and turned until I heard the click. Barely saw any of them move/tighten at all.
To retorque bolts, you 1) use the same order you did when tightening, 2) loosen the each bolt just slightly, then immediately re-torque it to spec. In other words, just retorque one bolt at a time. The loosening allows you to get a fresh run at it, so to speak, and not have to overcome the static friction (initial stickiness that makes it harder to get something sliding than it takes to keep it sliding). The reason you didn't see any movement was that you never overcame the static friction.

My understanding about re-using is that there are two basic kinds of headbolts: The normal ones that achieve and retain clamping force through bolt stretch, and the new-fangled single-use "torque-to-yield" ones that are meant to be torqued past the limit of elastic deformation (where the bolt is stretched too far to snap back completely when it is loosened). Sounds goofy to me. I suspect there are other factors like the size and weight of the bolts that are part of the selection process.

You can't substitute one bolt type for the other, and you never, ever reuse torque-to-yield bolts. Once they're stretched, they're useless.

I've always heard that old head bolts can be reused (at least a few times) even over many years because they snap back fully when loosened. My research and experience is mostly with iron head and block car engines, though.

What I've read is that studs are always best, especially when using aluminum heads because you're torquing a steel nut on a steel stud, sliding on a steel washer, and never twisting steel against aluminum with great force. Steel can gall (tear up) the aluminum quite easily. The ONLY reason OEMs use bolts is they're cheaper. The galling issue might be a good argument for using anti-sieze (or maybe moly paste) instead of plain old oil. I'm not sure a paste would give equivalent stretch for a given measured torque, though.

I bet that on first loosening of a head bolt in these old engines the chances of severely galling or even tearing out the aluminum threads is very good. It might be a good idea to routinely use heli-coils on all "used" holes if you're going to reuse the bolts.

I'm sure the SAE has massive dissertations on the subject somewhere.

Richard
1977 "GL1000-F Super Sport"
1969 Le Mans with 500 Cadillac engine
1989 5.0 Mustang

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without!"
"Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle"
"A stock goldwing horn will startle a sleeping cat on the seat. Not enough that he will jump off, but it makes him put his head up and open his eyes." - Cookie
"All machines talk....you just have to listen." - Frank, the Crazy Mofo
Missourimike
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1476
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Springfield, MO

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#20

Post by Missourimike »

Plain ol' motor oil has a relatively low boiling/flash point and will cook away much sooner than anti-seize. I think we've all had to scrape what's left of motor oil from pans and valve covers. Once the oil is cooked, you've got one hard compound left. That's when the bolts have to taken to the wire wheel for cleaning. Then the threaded holes need cleaning with a tap. So much easier to clean when the lubricant is still pliable.
The difficult can be done in a day. The impossible takes a little longer, if you don't know it can't be done.
'75 GL YelloWing, '73 Norton Commando, '79 CB750, '80 Fiat Spyder, '83 Silverado w/ BB Cad, to name a few.
'79 Black Hondaline/Vetter bagger Tourer
'76 Yello Café to be
'83 CX650C Needs Work
'83 CX650C #2 Daily Rider
'79 Yamaha XS750
10 others in the project/parts pile
fikit26
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:51 pm
My Album: www.goldiwngsunlimited.webs.com
Location: Ware , MA

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#21

Post by fikit26 »

I read on here when installing the rocker assembly to torque those bolts to spec, but nobody listed the spec or order, thats the step I'm at now,lol
1982 Gl1100 I >>>>Now 1982 Gl1100 NAKED!!!
oldiegoldie
Zinc Member
Zinc Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Illinios

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#22

Post by oldiegoldie »

I just partially rebuilt a couple of '78 heads, couldn't find a torque pattern either, but I notice a similarity between the 6 head bolt positions (just the big ones) and the 6 rocker bolt positions..............so, I used the head bolt pattern and so far so good. Seems logical. Whadddaya think?
1978 GL 1000 Goldwing (Blackie)
1978 GL 100 Goldwing (still under renovation but on the next spring!!)
fikit26
Cast Iron Member
Cast Iron Member
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:51 pm
My Album: www.goldiwngsunlimited.webs.com
Location: Ware , MA

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#23

Post by fikit26 »

After a bit of research I found the 80-83 gl1100 rocker assembly bolts torque using the same pattern as the heads with 15fp rather than the appx 40fp the heads use. Not sure if its the same for others though
1982 Gl1100 I >>>>Now 1982 Gl1100 NAKED!!!
oldiegoldie
Zinc Member
Zinc Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Illinios

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#24

Post by oldiegoldie »

The manual had the torque spec, which is the same, so I'm thinking the pattern is good for all as well.
Good Luck with your project!
1978 GL 1000 Goldwing (Blackie)
1978 GL 100 Goldwing (still under renovation but on the next spring!!)
User avatar
evilratwing
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:02 pm
My Album: http://www.photobucket.com/evil03ratwing
Location: West Sunbury, PA

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#25

Post by evilratwing »

Does ARP offer a stud kit for the GL?

..or are there GL stud kits available that have been selected and packaged? I'd like to go to studs if I can.. I feel safer with those.
The bike is essentially just another bike... The pilot is CRAZY.

http://www.photobucket.com/evil03ratwing
Whargoul - Murdered out 1978 GL1000 - Engine KaBOOM.
Cherry Cough Syrup - 2009 Suzuki M90 - 3,300 miles.
User avatar
lastwachter
Chrome Member
Chrome Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#26

Post by lastwachter »

I recently replaced a head and torqued to the specs in the manual. I did not use lube and torqued to 40. Would it be advisable to go back and lube the bolts and torque closer to 45? Would I do this by loosening and removing one bolt at a time in the pattern? Or is it too late to do this and still reuse the new head gasket I just put in?
1978 Goldwing
Gowing
True Blue Steel Biker
True Blue Steel Biker
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:50 am

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#27

Post by Gowing »

If you have not run motor then I think you could remove and lube one bolt at a time and lightly tighten all. Then take them up in three increments up to 45 pounds.
If you have run engine then I would back them off and take them up to 45 no lube.
I believe there is an adhesive that melts after hot cold cycles and it makes sense to
not break that bond. Please take my advice with a five pound sack of salt.
Dave

1975 GL 1000
1980 XS650
1981 ct110
1972 F7 KAW 175
2000 moby blaze 40cc
Chihuahua (Ellie)
Chihuahua #2(Blaze)
User avatar
robin1731
Membership Admin
Membership Admin
Posts: 21724
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
Location: Decatur, Indiana

Re: Torquing Head Bolts

#28

Post by robin1731 »

Even if it has been run you should remove the bolts and lube them. The lube is what gives you the correct torque. Some manufacturers have you lube them some don't. The manual tells you which way to do it. I would do one bolt at a time. Put it back in at 40. Then go back over them to 45. Do this on the engine after it has sat overnight.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “How To 4-Wings (Tutorials Only)”