Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
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- gltriker
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 5053
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
- Location: central NY State
Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
I was just checking out Randakk's Cycle Shakk website, and discovered this recently added, Tech Tip.
The first photo is key.
http://www.randakksblog.com/motorcycle-petcocks-101/
edit: within that Tech Tip is a somewhat hidden link, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock
The first photo is key.
http://www.randakksblog.com/motorcycle-petcocks-101/
edit: within that Tech Tip is a somewhat hidden link, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs )
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
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- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Petcock info from Randakk!
I've been saying that for years.
.
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- gltriker
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 5053
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
- Location: central NY State
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
I've been practicing it for years. Occasionally, we hear of some unfortunate soul that hasn't.robin1731 wrote:I've been saying that for years.
.
You can preach to some folks what may happen if a cylinder becomes hydraulically locked, and they won't comprehend what you are talking about.
A photograph of a bent connecting rod is certainly a good visual representation, though.
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs )
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
- JamesPal
- Chrome Member
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:57 pm
- Location: Bellevue, Waashington USA
Re: Petcock info from Randakk!
I'm on my third restoration. Never had a carb blockage or leaky petcock. I always line my tanks with Caswel, rebuild my petcocks with Randak seals.
"If everything is under control you are not going fast enough" - Mairo Andretti
'85 GL1200I
'81 GL1100 STD
'72 CB450
'85 GL1200I
'81 GL1100 STD
'72 CB450
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21724
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Petcock info from Randakk!
The guy that owned the CBX I put a rod in last year had never had a leaky petcock either.JamesPal wrote:I'm on my third restoration. Never had a carb blockage or leaky petcock. I always line my tanks with Caswel, rebuild my petcocks with Randak seals.
I keep that one around to show people. Two seconds to turn it off compared to a bill of over $1000.00.
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 9580
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Winnipeg, Manituba
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
My “Wall of Shame” pics:
I have been thinking of bringing the block into the basement and tearing it down to see how bent the rod is on mine and what’s needed for a rebuild. It is -30 C this morning. It’s not going to happen today.
Top view shows how a 1200 piston should come above the top of deck.(block) Bottom is of a piston after an attempt to start where the motor turned over quite a bit before getting slammed to a stop. Both pics show the piston at TDC. There was a crisp “crack” or “whack” sound when it stopped. I didn’t know I did this until the head gasket went a few hundred to a thousand miles later. I have been thinking of bringing the block into the basement and tearing it down to see how bent the rod is on mine and what’s needed for a rebuild. It is -30 C this morning. It’s not going to happen today.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
-
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Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Way back in the eighties my neighbor had a beautiful shovel. He got up one morning for work, kicked it, and it exploded. Blew him off the bike, and it burned up. I will always turn mine off even if i only to go inside a store.
1977 Gl 1000
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
1976 F1 750 SS
1973 Ironhead chopper
2007 Road King
1974 dohc 450 chopper project
1976 Gl 1000 parts bike
600rr parts bike
-
- True Blue Steel Biker
- Posts: 2314
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:50 am
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
It’s really a bad feeling when you own a bike with a vacuum petcock. There is no on off.
My fj1100 had one. Many bikes have them. The club recommended replacing with a new $170
petcock, when it failed. Some replaced with an aftermarket pingel, etc. No rebuild kit available for fj1100. The only thing I disliked about my bike.
My fj1100 had one. Many bikes have them. The club recommended replacing with a new $170
petcock, when it failed. Some replaced with an aftermarket pingel, etc. No rebuild kit available for fj1100. The only thing I disliked about my bike.
Dave
1975 GL 1000
1980 XS650
1981 ct110
1972 F7 KAW 175
2000 moby blaze 40cc
Chihuahua (Ellie)
Chihuahua #2(Blaze)
1975 GL 1000
1980 XS650
1981 ct110
1972 F7 KAW 175
2000 moby blaze 40cc
Chihuahua (Ellie)
Chihuahua #2(Blaze)
- salukispeed
- Platinum Member
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- Location: Oak Forest Illinois US
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Including the bent rods It has been mentioned before that this could be contributing to more of our failed head gaskets then we know . The condition creates incredible pressures and forces in the cylinder and often the engine survives only to fail later
Honda 72 CL100 sold
74 CB750 K4 nice driver
1966 CA77/305 Dream nostalgic driver
84 GL1200I work in progress
1970 CT 70
1982 GL500 Interstate
74 CB750 K4 nice driver
1966 CA77/305 Dream nostalgic driver
84 GL1200I work in progress
1970 CT 70
1982 GL500 Interstate
- Dirty Dave
- Silver Member
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- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:27 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Had a hydrolock situation once with my Valkyrie even though the vacuum petcock was in the off position. Replaced it with a Pingel for peace of mind. I was lucky enough to have smelled gas and didn't try to turn the bike over. Am I to understand that the needle valves wouldn't allow gas to leak into the cylinders if in good shape? I cleaned my carbs just in case and never looked back.
1978/9 GL1000
1997 Honda Valkyrie
2018 Kawasaki Z900 RS
1997 Honda Valkyrie
2018 Kawasaki Z900 RS
- desertrefugee
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
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Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
The Valk generally weathers a hydrolocked cylinder better than the 4 cylinder wings. Often, no damage results, but if it does, the result is chewed up starter gears instead. Still requires a motor extraction to repair, but better than rebuilding a bottom end.
- Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass. It's about learning to ride in the rain.
- Sidecar Bob
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Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Fuel hydrolock is caused by a leaking float valve, not a leaking petcock. A leaking petcock can't contribute to hydrolock unless the petcock was turned OFF when it happened and (on a 'Wing at least) the tank was at least half full (below that fuel can't flow into the carbs by gravity) and even then if the float valves are all doing their jobs nothing will get past them.
Shutting off the petcock will prevent fuel from flowing into the system and past a leaking float valve, though.
And Hydrolock isn't necessarily caused by fuel, either. A few years ago I tried starting my 'Wing the first time in the spring to find that it wouldn't turn over and when I removed the plugs I found one cylinder full of coolant. (Since "hydro" means water this is true hydrolock).
I've been thinking about this since I found the bent rod in the 1100 engine I started working on last year: My old (1000) engine was hydrolocked at least twice (if you find fuel in the plenum check the carb to plenum seals!!!) and, while it is still smoother than the CX's v-twin, I don't think it is as smooth as it was 20 years ago. And its mileage fell off noticeably about when the carb to plenum seals failed, which could be consistent with poorer compression resulting from the piston not reaching TDC. I'm thinking it might be interesting to check the compression before I swap in the new engine unless there any other way to determine if a rod is bent without removing the heads.....
Shutting off the petcock will prevent fuel from flowing into the system and past a leaking float valve, though.
And Hydrolock isn't necessarily caused by fuel, either. A few years ago I tried starting my 'Wing the first time in the spring to find that it wouldn't turn over and when I removed the plugs I found one cylinder full of coolant. (Since "hydro" means water this is true hydrolock).
I've been thinking about this since I found the bent rod in the 1100 engine I started working on last year: My old (1000) engine was hydrolocked at least twice (if you find fuel in the plenum check the carb to plenum seals!!!) and, while it is still smoother than the CX's v-twin, I don't think it is as smooth as it was 20 years ago. And its mileage fell off noticeably about when the carb to plenum seals failed, which could be consistent with poorer compression resulting from the piston not reaching TDC. I'm thinking it might be interesting to check the compression before I swap in the new engine unless there any other way to determine if a rod is bent without removing the heads.....
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
- gltriker
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 5053
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
- Location: central NY State
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Sidecar Bob wrote:Fuel hydrolock is caused by a leaking float valve, not a leaking petcock. A leaking petcock can't contribute to hydrolock unless the petcock was turned OFF when it happened and (on a 'Wing at least) the tank was at least half full (below that fuel can't flow into the carbs by gravity) and even then if the float valves are all doing their jobs nothing will get past them.
Shutting off the petcock will prevent fuel from flowing into the system and past a leaking float valve, though.
And Hydrolock isn't necessarily caused by fuel, either. A few years ago I tried starting my 'Wing the first time in the spring to find that it wouldn't turn over and when I removed the plugs I found one cylinder full of coolant. (Since "hydro" means water this is true hydrolock).
I've been thinking about this since I found the bent rod in the 1100 engine I started working on last year: My old (1000) engine was hydrolocked at least twice (if you find fuel in the plenum check the carb to plenum seals!!!) and, while it is still smoother than the CX's v-twin, I don't think it is as smooth as it was 20 years ago. And its mileage fell off noticeably about when the carb to plenum seals failed, which could be consistent with poorer compression resulting from the piston not reaching TDC.
I'm thinking it might be interesting to check the compression before I swap in the new engine unless there any other way to determine if a rod is bent without removing the heads.....
Occasionally I'd pondered that question, too, Sidecar Bob.
I know there are precision measuring depth indicators to determine piston top location through an assembled engine's angled spark plug hole. But, I no longer have the rig I utilized on 2 stroke engines, many moons ago.
Then I thought of an adjustable piston stop that would be utilized in a 4 stroke engine.
Here's an example. I don't have a disassembled GL engine to review the combustion chamber elements and test it on though, and no I'm not volunteering to remove a cylinder head on the trike.
Certainly not as accurate as the dial indicator rig, but a ball park comparison procedure could be formulated, if valve heads' interference and piston top irregularities (the GL valve relief pockets) wouldn't be problematic issues in the process. A too steep spark plug hole angle may be prohibitive, too.
Cliff (74yrs )
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
- Sidecar Bob
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 7631
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
- Location: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Sounds like a compression test would be the easiest way.....
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
- gltriker
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 5053
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
- Location: central NY State
Re: Petcock info from Randakk. the lesson is...Shut it OFF !
Please provide results, Bob.
Cliff (74yrs )
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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