Small, or big problem?

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Paola Zago
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Small, or big problem?

#1

Post by Paola Zago »

yesterday riding my yellow 1976 Gl 1000, suddenly I heard a noise like "clak" in the rear right area, then nothing, the bike ran smoothly, after a few kilometers, two more "clak clak" but lighter, and the bike was fine. to be safe, I immediately went home, about 20 km away, and the first thing that came to my mind was to check the oil in the cardan box, it was at the right level and had only been changed 7000 km before. out of scruple I decided to change it and, I was amazed to see that the oil that came out was brilliant !! in practice it contained many metal particles, like when you use a file on the iron !! the GL is only 55,000 km. what could have happened? what do you advise me to do ???
Paola (Italy)
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#2

Post by Whiskerfish »

That is definitely disturbing. I am not familiar with the term "cardan box" but I am guessing you are talking about the final drive. If you can see metal in the oil especially this close after a oil change I would start shopping for a replacement. Rebuilding one of these has been done, but only by the most adventerous of us.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#3

Post by Paola Zago »

thanks Whiskerfish for the reply. yes, I mean the final transmission box. my mechanic said to bring the GL next week, which opens the final, according to him the bearings need to be replaced. mah
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#4

Post by Whiskerfish »

I would ask for a solid estimate before committing to a rebuild. Not all the bearings are available and the seals can also be an issue to find. There are some special tools (or home made) needed for setting the torques. Because of the time involved chasing parts, doing research, building tools etc.. you could easily spend hundreds having one freshened up at a Mechanic's. I know you do not have the spares availability there that we do in the States but I have always considered the Final Drive as a throw away item.
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"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#5

Post by pidjones »

Even the 1800s suffer final drive failures. I bought a trike take-off for ours just-in-case that at 125k miles is still boxed up. You should be able to find a breaker with a fairly low mileage one on ebay. Shipping would be higher due to the weight, but still cheaper than a repair (IF parts can be sourced). I believe that after '75 a grease nipple and baffle was added for the slip coupling on the drive shaft tube in front of the final drive, but that was the only difference from '75 - '79 as far as I know.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#6

Post by tlbranth »

That noise came to my ears a few hundred miles before the driveshaft splines were gone on my GL1500. I moly lube the driveshaft now at tire change. Sounds like you may need a new shaft and the bit that it mates to in the final drive.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#7

Post by gltriker »

Considering the 1976 model year of this GL1000, and reported mileage, my first thought would be to pull the flexible rubber boot back to expose and examine the condition of the driveshaft''s u-joint.
tlbranth also mentioned the splined coupling components on the opposite end of the driveshaft. A removable female spline coupler, and it's complementing male splined coupler on the exposed snout of the final drive's pinion shaft.
That male component is easily removed off the input end of the pinion shaft ( a locknut and flat washer ) and replaceable , too.

Did you run a magnet through the gear oil, Paolo?
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#8

Post by Paola Zago »

thank you all for the answers and for the moral and technical support. I have evaluated the purchase of a final transmission, there are some for sale in Europe, but no one can assure me that they are perfect, I have to carefully evaluate.
Paola (Italy)
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#9

Post by Paola Zago »

gltriker wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:52 pm Considering the 1976 model year of this GL1000, and reported mileage, my first thought would be to pull the flexible rubber boot back to expose and examine the condition of the driveshaft''s u-joint.
tlbranth also mentioned the splined coupling components on the opposite end of the driveshaft. A removable female spline coupler, and it's complementing male splined coupler on the exposed snout of the final drive's pinion shaft.
That male component is easily removed off the input end of the pinion shaft ( a locknut and flat washer ) and replaceable , too.

Did you run a magnet through the gear oil, Paolo?
sorry gltrike, why are you asking me if I passed a magnet in the gear oil? do you mean engine oil? can there be a link ??
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#10

Post by gltriker »

Paola Zago wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:36 am yesterday riding my yellow 1976 Gl 1000, suddenly I heard a noise like "clak" in the rear right area, then nothing, the bike ran smoothly, after a few kilometers, two more "clak clak" but lighter, and the bike was fine. to be safe, I immediately went home, about 20 km away, and the first thing that came to my mind was to check the oil in the cardan box, it was at the right level and had only been changed 7000 km before. out of scruple I decided to change it and, I was amazed to see that the oil that came out was brilliant !! in practice it contained many metal particles, like when you use a file on the iron !! the GL is only 55,000 km.
what could have happened?
what do you advise me to do ???
Paola (Italy)
Hmmmm?
When you drained the lubricant out of the " cardan box " final drive 7000 km ago, what was the oil type and weight that was used to refill the" cardan box
"?

A hypoid gear oil of API GL-5 80-90W, or SAE 10W-40 engine oil?

Note: I don't utilize the original GL1000 final drive on my GL1000 trike, so I may not be stating the exact GearLubrication class and weight of hypoid gear oil specification in the Honda factory technical literature.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#11

Post by Paola Zago »

gltriker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:22 am
Paola Zago wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:36 am yesterday riding my yellow 1976 Gl 1000, suddenly I heard a noise like "clak" in the rear right area, then nothing, the bike ran smoothly, after a few kilometers, two more "clak clak" but lighter, and the bike was fine. to be safe, I immediately went home, about 20 km away, and the first thing that came to my mind was to check the oil in the cardan box, it was at the right level and had only been changed 7000 km before. out of scruple I decided to change it and, I was amazed to see that the oil that came out was brilliant !! in practice it contained many metal particles, like when you use a file on the iron !! the GL is only 55,000 km.
what could have happened?
what do you advise me to do ???
Paola (Italy)
Hmmmm?
When you drained the lubricant out of the " cardan box " final drive 7000 km ago, what was the oil type and weight that was used to refill the" cardan box
"?

A hypoid gear oil of API GL-5 80-90W, or SAE 10W-40 engine oil?

Note: I don't utilize the original GL1000 final drive on my GL1000 trike, so I may not be stating the exact GearLubrication class and weight of hypoid gear oil specification in the Honda factory technical literature.

the oil change, both engine and final transmission, is one of the few jobs I know how to do on motorcycles, and I always scrupulously follow the data in the workshop manual. for the final transmission I use API SAE 90 oil, as quantity the manual reports 210 cc, but I fill until the level comes out of the hole.
then not having found precise data on the replacement, I change the oil of the final transmission every 10,000 km or every two years. while that of the engine every 5000 km or every two years. I don't know if I'm doing well or if I'm wrong, you tell me.
Paola (Italy)
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#12

Post by Paola Zago »

I would have found in Germany a final transmission of a 1979 KZ, he says with 23,000 km (I must trust what the seller says) he asks for 100 euros, but in the meantime I wanted to know if the final transmission of a 79 KZ can be installed on a GL from 76, and in any case before buying it I wait for what my mechanic tells me after he has examined it.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#13

Post by redglbx »

Paola, No a KZ differential cannot replace a goldwing differential ! Paola, you need one from a 75 to 79 goldwing, also it is spec’d that any differential oil you use needs to be GL-5 rated, in the differential.

Like others have said above I think you probably have a bad drive shaft but you need to pull it all apart to verify that. Have you or do you know if the splines have ever been lubed ? This should be done at about every tire change.

Also gltriker was asking if you passed a magnet through the drained differential oil to see if there are any metal particles that stick to the magnet, if so then the differential is probably bad or going bad which is rare if no particles then it would point more towards a problem elsewhere, probably the driveshaft.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#14

Post by gltriker »

Paola Zago wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:09 am
gltriker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:22 am
Paola Zago wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:36 am yesterday riding my yellow 1976 Gl 1000, suddenly I heard a noise like "clak" in the rear right area, then nothing, the bike ran smoothly, after a few kilometers, two more "clak clak" but lighter, and the bike was fine. to be safe, I immediately went home, about 20 km away, and the first thing that came to my mind was to check the oil in the cardan box, it was at the right level and had only been changed 7000 km before. out of scruple I decided to change it and, I was amazed to see that the oil that came out was brilliant !! in practice it contained many metal particles, like when you use a file on the iron !! the GL is only 55,000 km.
what could have happened?
what do you advise me to do ???
Paola (Italy)
Hmmmm?
When you drained the lubricant out of the " cardan box " final drive 7000 km ago, what was the oil type and weight that was used to refill the" cardan box
"?

A hypoid gear oil of API GL-5 80-90W, or SAE 10W-40 engine oil?

Note: I don't utilize the original GL1000 final drive on my GL1000 trike, so I may not be stating the exact GearLubrication class and weight of hypoid gear oil specification in the Honda factory technical literature.

the oil change, both engine and final transmission, is one of the few jobs I know how to do on motorcycles, and I always scrupulously follow the data in the workshop manual. for the final transmission I use API SAE 90 oil, as quantity the manual reports 210 cc, but I fill until the level comes out of the hole.
then not having found precise data on the replacement, I change the oil of the final transmission every 10,000 km or every two years. while that of the engine every 5000 km or every two years. I don't know if I'm doing well or if I'm wrong, you tell me.
Paola (Italy)
I meant no disrespect. None.
Regretably now I had simply attempted to answer your questions as I had interpreted them. My abject apologies to you.

Done.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Small, or big problem?

#15

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Some of the confusion in this thread is caused by imprecise use of words so maybe a few definitions might help

"Cardan" refers to a universal joint (named for inventor G. Cardano)

"transmission" refers to a set of gears that are arranged so that they can be moved in and out of mesh to provide different gear ratios between the engine and the driving wheel(s). The transmission of a GL1000 is built into the engine and lubricated by the same oil as the engine.

"final drive" is a housing at the end of a motorcycle's swingarm with gears that convert the rotation of the driveshaft (propeller shaft) to the direction of rotation needed to turn the wheel.

"gear oil" is special oil formulated to withstand the shearing action of the gears. Since the final drive contains only gears it needs to be lubricated with gear oil and Honda specified "hypoid" gear oil because of the shape of the teeth of the gears.

BTW: "differential" refers to a device that allows driven wheels at opposite ends of an axle to turn at different rates as required for turning corners. Since 2 wheeled motorcycles only have one driven wheel they do not have differentials.

Paola: I think what you meant is that after you heard the strange sounds you drained the gear oil from your final drive and found that the gear oil contained metal particles.
I believe gltriker asked what kind of oil you used in the final drive because SAE90 gear oil looks a lot like 10W40 engine oil and a few cases have been reported of people damaging final drives by using engine oil in them instead of gear oil.
He suggested passing a magnet through the gear oil to determine whether the particles in it are steel or aluminum.
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