'79 Wing and a Prayer

[Rat]

Gas cap ?
Gord

[JAMi_750]

Coils are also a possibility, I haven't gone back into this thread to see if you have addressed / replaced already. I had this happen on two of my bikes, with similar symptoms - power loss, irratic idle, etc. The bike would run good at idle, but then start running poorly once the bike and coils would heat up.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

And... close.

Not the gas cap - one of my first, early "what the..." diagnoses. Lots to report on this beautiful Labor Day in Maine, and not quite back in business. I was so hoping I had a plugged vent hole!

• Valves - most were in spec; a couple were a hair loose, so I adjusted. Nothing tightened up, which is good.

• Not sure what happened, but the Dyna timing was off. What a pain to get that sorted - 1/2, then 3/4, then 1/2, then 3/4, all the while inching closer to spec. I hope I tightened things down enough for it to hold.

• Coils appeared fine. I didn't do any actual testing there.

I buttoned her up and ran down the road. Same hesitation/bog when getting on the throttle at/above 3k. I quickly turned around and pulled the rack to get in there and see what's what.

• I pulled and cleaned jets, blew out the fuel lines, etc.

• There was a little more crud than I expected to find after only about 1k since I last pulled them. Mental note: second filter after the pump.

• In the reassembly, I hit upon something that SEEMS TO BE THE CULPRIT! - barely noticeable, bent hinge pin for the #2 float. I didn't notice it until I went to put the pin in and the float wouldn't swing on the pin. I played with it a bit, and now it swings freely.

• Slides were quite slidey - they float up and down with the spring as I either push down or just jiggle them in the hand. No sign of stiction there - though they could be hanging a bit inside the carb body if they're "slamming" the sides as they try to rise.

• I cranked her over a bit without carbs to pump fuel into a container to see what was coming out of the pump - and to confirm that it still seems to pump ok. In maybe 1/4 cup of fuel, I was seeing a few sediment bits that either got through my filter before the pump or came from the pump.

• I buttoned the rack all up again and reinstalled the carbs.

• I decided to put in new plugs just because - ok the old ones weren't new.

• I put in a second fuel filter after the pump.

MY HYPOTHESIS - A #2 sticking float doesn't readily fall as the bike calls for heavy fuel and the bowl starts draining. Then, perhaps it drops due to vibration, which allows fuel into bowl #2 until the bowl is full again. And then I call for fuel, drop the levels, and the float hangs. Or maybe it hung up at a point where it allows only some fuel into the bowl. The feeling I've been experiencing is consistent with what one might feel if the floats are maladjusted and cut off fuel before the bowls have enough fuel to deliver at maximum demand. (I've felt that on a few bikes - including a Wing.)

OK. Great. Test run.

I can get on the bike, and ride it normally until it's warmed up. It pulls hard all the way to redline. I'm not getting that fuel starvation hesitation/flutter thing, so that's good.

Now I'm having a little low RPM finickiness. Launch is trickier, with a bit of bog/hesitation, and she's not as smooth as she was below 3k. It's irritating, mainly because she was running like a top through the entire range from idle to redline. But I can deal with those issues much more comfortably than what I had before.

I'm going to sync the carbs again. Adjusted timing might call for adjusted sync. I know from experience that out-of-sync carbs can pose challenges at low RPMs.

I don't know, really, but I think these bikes can misbehave a bit when the battery isn't doing so well - another possible variable here.

I accidentally left the ignition on for about 90 minutes while I was disassembling parts of the carbs. The bike cranked just fine the next day and started right up after the fuel got to the bowls. BUT the voltmeter during the ride was notably lower than it has been, starting at just about 12 (it was even below 12 while the bike was idling and I was checking all over for possible fuel leaks). Over a 30-minute shakedown, voltage crept up to reporting at/around 14. (That's atypical, as it often quickly reports closer to 15v soon after start, dropping down to 13-14 after warming up a bit. I'm pondering the hope that an overnight trickle charge might help to address some of the low RPM stuff. It probably won't.

I'll take the tricky start/low RPM stuff over the high RPM flutter every time. I don't spend much time in stop/go traffic.

[pidjones]

Low battery voltage might be the problem at low rpm until she has had time to recharge. Also, a quick check of connections might be in order. Sync should notbe effected by that, but certainly will be by valve adjustment.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

I've ridden Ginger to work this week. I'm not happy.

• Voltage is reading normal again.

• Idle is less stable than it was before I "fixed" what felt a bit like fuel starvation above 3500k.

• She's not much fun on launch, below 2k, etc.

• Sync isn't that far off, but it could use a little adjustment.

• While working on sync, I developed symptoms of an air leak - blip the throttle, and she doesn't come down to idle. Could be some leakage in sync hoses, I suppose.

What the stumbling/hesitation at low RPM feels like, though, is clogged low speed jets.

Carbs are coming off again. I must have made some mistake in the disassembly, cleaning, reassembly.

True story: Ginger was running pretty darned good in May, when I registered her and started riding. There were some smallish issues in the low rpm range, but she was a good rider. I then picked up a semi-basket case '78 (ok, it came in paper bags and cardboard boxes) to bring back to life and sell. OK. The carb rack for that bike came disassembled in a bin and, it turned out, was missing about a dozen important bits. (Surprise!) I figured I'd pull the good working rack from Ginger to at least confirm that I could get the basket case running again and sort out some basics, etc. while I sourced another '78 rack Immediately, I ran into issues. Clogged carbs, poorly performing carbs, etc. I sourced a greasy, painted mess of a rack for the '78, disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, and tuned it to the '78. When I sold the '78 she was running more smoothly than Ginger. Along the way, I thought I sorted Ginger's carb issues (and did for a good 1000 miles of riding).

I should NOT have pulled Ginger's carbs as a temporary loaner/donor for an unknown basket case. I'll be learning that lesson for a bit longer, it seems.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Ginger is back on the road after nearly 3 weeks sitting and waiting for me to get back into the carbs. Still not there, but she's ridable. Valves and timing are set and checked again this weekend. I still need to re-check my sync.

Once I get over the stumble on throttle - it can happen off idle, between 2.5-3k, or even over 3k, typically after I roll off on decel then roll on - the power kicks in like it should. Until that happens, I've got the bogging blues. It feels like I'm holding back a few of the horsies. Aside from feeling it when accelerating from a stop, I notice it most when I decel and brake into a corner, then roll on through the turn. More aggressive riding at higher rpms seems to keep those blues away and the smile on my face.

I think I'm suffering sticky slide syndrome. That's frustrating, as I thought they were pretty well polished up. If they're sticking, I think it's down in the carb body and not the caps. I never separated cap/slide, so they're matched. But maybe swapping their carb position might help. I had a version of this problem months back and sorted it then. I thought my polishing skills were somehow masterful; perhaps it was more about slide/cap position in the rack.

I want it right. And I also want to ride the bike. I can't do both, and my wrench time is pretty limited right now.

I'm thinking I'll ride her through the fall season and tweak over the cold months. I can see putting another 1000+ miles on the tires before she gets winterized.

[gltriker]

Sir,
Your engine has very good individual cylinder compression test numbers, 160-170psi with all valves' lash set at 0.006inch. Very Good, Check.

You have labored to clean up the entire gasoline delivery path from the fuel tank into the carburetors. Many times. An ongoing project.

I noted the ignition system has been somewhat enhanced with the installation of a dyna s .Very low resistance Ground path connection surfaces are of highest importance here. Corrosion is the enemy of any electrical system. Makes the dyna s system static timing procedure more difficult to accomplish and degrades the entire ignition system performance.

I gather the original assembly line installed ignition coils and their integral spark plug wires haven't been replaced, Yet. You mentioned setting the static timing of the dyna s system was less than confidence inspiring and has been rechecked at least once. The integrity of the aged ignition coil primary wiring circuits terminals and multiple other details need to examined and made top notch condition again.

You are aware low cost ignition coils and replaceable spark plug wires are available from several sources and cfairweather has published a document that covers their installation. Note: at the time it was composed, you would have to source several components to wire the ignition coil into the bike's primary ignition wiring circuit
viewtopic.php?t=77232

As an alternative to gathering components to install the low cost ignition coils, our fellow Club member DSA discovered a source for a pair of low cost ignition coil kit that includes the necessary primary wire pigtail wires , terminals, and screws with lock washers that secures the pigtail wires ring terminal to the 2 ignition coil screw terminals. Spark plug wires are included?!

Hi all,
snip-
I've got a 76 GL1000 and am in the process of replacing the ignition coils.
I purchased 5 ohm magna coils: https://4into1.com/set-of-2-magna-dual- ... 50-gl1000/

The ballast resistor has already been removed and discarded.Yes?
We vigorously encourage you to now focus on the integrity of the entire ignition system, too.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Thanks.

I'm still chasing issues with the air/fuel delivery, methinks. Frustrating given the efforts. I'll pull the rack again, for sure.

I'm also now seeing a voltage issue this week - possibly. I'll need to get my multimeter on it to see if the on board voltmeter is reporting accurately, check the regulator/rectifier, check connections, etc.

Dyna coils, aftermarket wires, no ballast resistor. I think I'll trim back the wires a bit and re-attach the caps, which I've not done.

I'm riding her, but it's not the all-out-joy I want it to be - or it was back in May. At least I have that benchmark as a reference point.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

I synchronized the carbs today. #1 was a bit high; #2 and #4 were a tad low. Only #1 was technically out of spec, but I pulled them all inline with #3. The sync did help smooth out launch and low speed acceleration.

In the process, I discovered that the fan isn't kicking on, so there's the thermo switch to deal with as well. I'll check connections, of course, but it was definitely working in early spring before I put Ginger on the road.

Maybe I'm getting closer. Maybe not.

[pidjones]

Maybe just power the fan. I found siezed bearings on one of mine.

[rcmatt007]

I would try jumping the connector to the thermo switch first. if the fan turns on it is the switch. moving the carbs in and out you may also have a loose connector

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Right. I manually checked the fan about 18 months ago, back when the motor was out and things felt like I was at a point of no return. But I should get in there, look at the connections, and manually activate the fan. I could wire in a manual switch, as I've done with other bikes.

I'll be unbolting the rack again to tinker with a sticking slide issue. That could be the time to sort out my fan issue.

My more worrisome issue now is the 15v+ I'm pushing to the battery, owing to what's probably regulator/rectifier failure. I spent good $ on an AGM, and I'd like to get my $ out of it.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Regarding the voltage and overcharging Ginger's battery, I tried grounding the rectifier (GLtriker's suggestion):

I had personally discovered this fact on my 1975 GL1000 trike project in 2012, and passed it on to Blue Thunder in 2016. ...
By chance, I checked the engine running battery charging voltage and it was abnormally high (~17vdc).hmmmmm?
Then, I discovered by simply pushing the loose battery frame and its attached charging rectifier assembly against its complementing upper sanded fastening pad on the main frame, the abnormally high charging voltage (~17vdc) immediately dropped to 14. something vdc; I can't recall the exact .10ths of dc volts 4 years after my unexpected discovery. I already knew the battery frame had to have a good ground path present for the solid mounted ignition condenser to operate correctly, but nothing about the charging system Rectifier Assembly possibly requiring one, too. There you have it! ...

I didn't discover a difference in the voltage, so I've got something else going on.

I like Sidecar Bob's note about running the sense wire directly to the battery, especially since I can see that it heads right into the wiring harness and disappears - chasing it down seems daunting, as does going through every single connection.

The regulator's black wire is the "sense" wire. It tells the regulator what the system voltage is so that the regulator can adjust its output voltage to what it thinks is needed to charge the battery.
If everything else is as it should be connecting the sense wire to a black wire (switched power) in the bike's wiring should result in a charging voltage between 14 and 15V.
BUT if there is enough resistance in the connections, switches &c between the battery and the black wire to cause the voltage there to be lower than the battery voltage the regulator will think the battery's voltage is low and increase its output to increase the charge rate, resulting in the overcharging noted by several who have posted here.
The proper fix for this would be to go through everything between the battery and where the sense wire is connected and fix the dirty connections but that would be a lot of work so most people just connect the sense wire with the regulator's red wires (= directly to the battery). Since the regulator only uses the sense wire to measure the voltage any current flowing through it should be so low that most the meters home mechanics have can't measure it. In theory even a current that small could eventually discharge a battery but it would take so long that it isn't worth considering when compared to a lead acid battery's normal tendency to self discharge.

I think I'll SEE if a direct connection to the sense wire gets me results on voltage regulation. That's a super easy test. If so, perhaps that's my solution.

And I'm already starting to eyeball possible CBR600 solutions. I like that the units seem to bolt right to the battery housing and tuck in like OEM.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Took some time this morning to explore the overcharge situation.

I found that my Dyna wire gets power because the PO soldered it to the black sense wire on the regulator. Hmm.

I clipped that off and relocated it to a fused, switched connection. I was going to just go with the turn signal lead and follow the Dyna instructions. But the block was right there.

A direct line to the battery seemed not to drop the current coming running to the battery - as measured at the battery.

Then I resoldered the sense wire together and went for a little ride.

I sorta think maybe the voltage is down a bit, but it's not as low as I'd like it to be.

The CBR600 solution may be in my near future.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

I'm riding Ginger with a smile again.

CARB UPDATE
On Sunday, I unbolted the carb rack and slid it around enough to pull the slides and caps for a good look at sticking issues.

I decided to swap 1&3 and 2&4 to change the mating of slide to carb body. I think #1 was having a little hangup/sticking in the carb body. Ok.

I got into the bodies with some aluminum foil and did a bit of polishing/cleaning. I also used a bit of carb cleaner to remove any gunk that might be causing issues where the slides move. I polished all slides and caps again. After that, I DID experience weird sticking in #2 and #4 slide/caps. There was nothing notable blocking things - maybe a little carb cleaner that wasn't dry? Anyway, I futzed with that issue for a bit, eventually getting that nice smooth bouncy experience of the slide floating on sprint compression.

I buttoned it all back up and took off for one of our favorite little 30-minute jaunts through local Maine twisties.

JOY, OH JOY again. This is the ride I was experiencing back in early summer, before my carb woes. I could pick some nits about 1200-1500 rpm smoothness. But I'm not getting that slide sticking hesitation/bog. Rolling on coming through the turns is smooth again, and she pulls like she should.

VOLTAGE MANAGEMENT
I have not fixed the voltage/overcharge at higher RPM issues. I ordered a used CBR600 regulator that is the recommended upgrade that bolts to the battery tray. It arrived Monday, and I'll tackle that swap before long. It seems pretty straightforward, with perhaps the most tedious element involving a re-use of the original connector to the harness. (We'll see how that goes. Worst case, I can give up on that part and use individual connectors.)

I'll take pictures and write up that effort - I promise.

FAN SWITCH
I jumped the fan, and it works just fine. I also jumped the wires to the thermal switch and the fan ran straight away.

I pulled away the radiator and drained the coolant to try to address the fan issue.

The fan switch isn't working. I swapped in an old, untested GL1100 switch. It also didn't work.

Another thermal switch is needed. No biggie. I'm now riding in temps that get as high as the 60s. I need to won't worry about overheating until next June, most likely.