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Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

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gltriker
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Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#16

Post by gltriker »

POST#16
DSA wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:28 pm Big update and great news!
To date, I'd synched the carbs several times using my Carbtune pro. But multiple people on here saying that my issues sound like unsynched carbs and Cliff's suggestion that maybe my Carbtune isn't working properly got me thinking. So: I re-read the Carbtune manual. It tells me I am supposed to be hanging the carbtune off the handlebars of the bike - I hadn't been doing this. Instead, I'd been laying it on the false tank, almost horizontally. I did as the manual said and hung the instrument off the bars, and lo and behold...it indicated no vacuum. On any of the cylinders. That obviously didn't make any sense, since the bike's engine was running. If I blipped the throttle, I briefly got a reading, but only from 3 of the cylinders. [/size]If I angled the carbtune so that it was more horizontal (what I had before), I started getting a reading from all 4. But now my confidence in the reading was pretty badly shaken. So back I went to the manual - and it said that for bikes pulling low vacuum, one alternative is to hand the carbtune upside down. Gave that a try, and now I had readings. Using this, I resynched the carbs. Let it sit overnight, then took it for a test ride just now.
Jai -

I discovered something eye-opening :shock: about the Carbtune Pro rubber hoses quite by accident yesterday evening.

I wanted to hang my 4 vacuum gauges synchronizer panel
off to the left side of trike for a clearer view of them from the right side and needed longer rubber hoses to reach all 4 intake manifold synchronization fittings on my '75 GL1000.

Hmm...my Carbtune Pro has synch hoses which are a lot longer, so I swapped the vacuum gauges adjustable needle snubber valves into those longer Carbtune Pro synch hoses and gained at least another foot.

note: the engine had been running until maybe 5 minutes before this photo was taken. I had previously noted with prolonged sessions of vacuum pump balancing these 4 vacuum gauges needles, they invariably would linger slightly off their balanced set point for a while. (never timed it...let's say overnight)
20230928_193742.jpg
20230928_193742.jpg (84.69 KiB) Viewed 372 times
The 4 vacuum gauges panel was hanging with its bottom edge swung away from vertical, and was making its 4 individual vacuum gauge faces increasingly difficult to read, while I was leaning over from trike's right side attempting to balance the running engine's left and right cylinder banks.

The 4 vacuum gauges' needles had previously been snubbed sufficiently to provide slightly twitching readings, but became difficult to see clearly at close range while attempting to adjust the left rear synch screw.

I soon stood straight up to get a better view of the gauge faces and discovered them too far underswung and reached under the bottom edge of the gauges panel to swing them upwards. I would guesstimate no more than 30ish degrees.
Suddenly all 4 vacuum gauge needles, in unison stopped twitching.
Hmmm
Still holding the vacuum gauges panel at that 30ish degrees angle I opened the snubber valves 1/2 turn . Nothing.
1 turn. Nothing. all 4 vacuum gauge needles are dead still. Hmmm
anyways...
I am pretty well exhausted anyways and release the vacuum gauges panel to swing backwards from vertical, then sit down.
Trike's Engine is still running and I look across the top of the shelter and those 4 vacuum gauge needles are all busily (wildly) oscillating again. note- all 4 vacuum gauge needle snubber valves were still an additional 1 turn open.

What I am observing is a situation where the Carbtune company's synch hoses are basically hanging straight down from my 4 vacuum gauges panel in comparison to the 180ish degrees arching over profile the hoses take on when plugged onto the top of the Carbtune Pro manometer? barb fittings.

Perhaps that is a reasonable assessment why your personal Carbtune Pro was not responding, at all, to your bike's running engine when its manometer case is suspended as intended, vertically.

The very flexible Carbtune Pro rubber hoses will arch when draped sufficiently and though not visible on their outer surface, collapse internally? Maybe yes...Maybe no.

Last thing ;)
Here's a photo of the Carbtune Pro to show fellows not familiar with its vacuum hoses' attachment details.

Screenshot_20230929_144120_Video Editor.jpg
Screenshot_20230929_144120_Video Editor.jpg (38.56 KiB) Viewed 370 times
Last edited by gltriker on Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:26 am, edited 6 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
DSA
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Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#17

Post by DSA »

Interesting - I might try and replicate those results to see if it is systemic. My carbtune looks exactly like yours!

Over the last week: got all the electrical stuff figured out. Previous owner had put a Vetter fairing on it which I could not stand, and unhacking the mess of wires they made took a bit. But Randakk helpfully provides a wiring diagram here: https://www.randakksblog.com/wp-content ... gram-1.pdf

Put all the bodywork back on, too! A bit rough looking now, but I think it'll clean up really nice with some elbow grease.
Last task before I go ride it around some more is to take a run at the speedo, which currently is laggy and doesn't really get over 30 mph. I'm going to pull the speedo cable and lube it...but considering that the odometer/tripmeter is working perfectly, I do not have high hopes. Will post some pictures tomorrow!
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
redglbx
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Location: NW Indiana,

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#18

Post by redglbx »

DSA/Cliff,,,,I also have the Carbtune Pro and found it less than reliable. Several problems contributed to the bad operation, first I found that there were “snubbers” inside the vacuum lines and I found that connecting all 4 lines up to a common manifold and my MityVac showed very different results on the Carbtune. Removing the restrictions from the hoses helped a bunch but still wasn’t right, they should’ve been all reading the same.

Next up I contacted Carbtune and they suggested cleaning the tubes & rods & voila it now read the same across all 4 cylinders on the Mity-Vac. So I have found the Mity-Vac very sensitive to restrictions in the hoses and now have only the fish tank needle valves and also usually clean the rods & tubes prior to use, but quite frankly I just leave it hanging in the cabinet and just use my vacuum gauge rack after calibrating them by attaching all the gauge hoses to a common manifold and applying vacuum with my Mity-Vac, they should all read the same.

The moral of this story is that I have no faith in my Carbtune and really should just sell it, I don’t use it or care for it. I have also found it sensitive to the hanging angle.
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
DSA
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Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#19

Post by DSA »

How about that. And here I was thinking this was some very fancy, reliable piece of equipment.
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
redglbx
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:39 am
Location: NW Indiana,

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#20

Post by redglbx »

DSA, as you’ve probably gathered I’m not a fan ! The Carbtune is pretty fancy looking but I find it sensitive to many things that make it less than accurate. Just my .02 but many have used them with good results, I’m just not a fan!
Red 1976 oe owner
1976 LTD restored
1980 CBX , in the que, to fix the ignorant heavy handed owner
1981 CBX
1977 CB750 K7
2014 FJR OE owner, sold
1980 GL1100
1984 GL1200 naked
1969 CL350, in the que
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gltriker
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Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#21

Post by gltriker »

DSA wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:32 am Interesting - I might try and replicate those results to see if it is systemic. My carbtune looks exactly like yours!

Over the last week: got all the electrical stuff figured out. Previous owner had put a Vetter fairing on it which I could not stand, and unhacking the mess of wires they made took a bit. But Randakk helpfully provides a wiring diagram here: https://www.randakksblog.com/wp-content ... gram-1.pdf

Put all the bodywork back on, too! A bit rough looking now, but I think it'll clean up really nice with some elbow grease.
n at Last task before I go ride it around some more is to take a run at the speedo, which currently is laggy and doesn't really get over 30 mph. I'm going to pull the speedo cable and lube it...but considering that the odometer/tripmeter is working perfectly, I do not have high hopes. Will post some pictures tomorrow!
Found this in Pistol Pete's Bench (@ Guru's Corner) re: the speedometer
https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50945
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
DSA
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Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:14 pm

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#22

Post by DSA »

Weirdly the speedo issue seems to have fixed itself as I ran the bike in. Same with the tach: it was all jumpy, but as I've added a couple of hundred miles, it's settled right down :)
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
User avatar
gltriker
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Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: central NY State

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#23

Post by gltriker »

DSA wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:32 am Interesting - I might try and replicate those results to see if it is systemic. My carbtune looks exactly like yours!

Over the last week: got all the electrical stuff figured out. Previous owner had put a Vetter fairing on it which I could not stand, and unhacking the mess of wires they made took a bit. But Randakk helpfully provides a wiring diagram here: https://www.randakksblog.com/wp-content ... gram-1.pdf

Put all the bodywork back on, too! A bit rough looking now, but I think it'll clean up really nice with some elbow grease.
Last task before I go ride it around some more is to take a run at the speedo, which currently is laggy and doesn't really get over 30 mph. I'm going to pull the speedo cable and lube it...but considering that the odometer/tripmeter is working perfectly, I do not have high hopes. Will post some pictures tomorrow!
Jai-

Tomorrow has come and gone -- 30 times ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
DSA
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Chrome Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:14 pm

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#24

Post by DSA »

Right you are! Here are a few :)
IMG_1680.JPG
IMG_1680.JPG (216.53 KiB) Viewed 85 times
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IMG_1679.JPG (184.86 KiB) Viewed 85 times
IMG_1678.JPG
IMG_1678.JPG (197.43 KiB) Viewed 85 times
IMG_1681.JPG
IMG_1681.JPG (194.51 KiB) Viewed 85 times
1976 GL1000 Sulfur Yellow (bought it dead and got it running. Making it perfect will be my eternal project.)
2000 VFR
2003 Blackbird (sold)
1993 CBR1000F (sold)
1998 Valkyrie (sold)
2002 Concours (sold)
1989 EX500 (sold)
User avatar
gltriker
Honored Life Member
Honored Life Member
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
Location: central NY State

Re: Weird idea for checking for vacuum leaks?

#25

Post by gltriker »

Very Nice! Thank you tumb2
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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