Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

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gltriker
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#16

Post by gltriker »

Wendell wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:14 pm Thanks to all who replied. I decided to pull the heads and send them to Shumann's to be remanufactured[/color]. They do a lot of old Japanese bikes and I decided if I was going to do this I should go whole hog.
Is the Cross Over Parts List's section on "Head Gasket Job" all the stuff I need to start collecting for the reassembly? To refresh your memory:

Qty - - - Part # - - - - - Description
2 -- 12251-371-306 -- gasket, head
2 -- 12328-371-000 -- gasket, cyl head cover
2 -- 19429-371-306 -- gasket, water elbow
2 -- 91308-371-003 -- o-ring, oil orifice(small)
2 -- 91305-371-003 -- o-ring, oil orifice(large)
4 -- 91301-MB6-003 -- o-ring, coolant tube
4 -- 18291-386-306 -- gasket, exhaust
4 -- 91301-371-005 -- o-ring, intake manifold
1 -- 91256-096-651 -- seal, tach cable
1 -- 12390-371-405 -- insulator, fuel pump housing
3 -- 91209-371-003 -- seal, camshaft
8 -- 12209-MB9-003 -- seal, valve guide
** And timing belts, oil, silicate-free coolant, as well as a thermostat. The cam seals and valve guide seals are needed if you choose to lap your valves while the heads are off.


The ShopTalk cylinder head parts list and your additional items looks quite complete to me! tumb2

Schumann's is located, where?

I noted in your list of machines you've crossed the USA several times on different bikes.

Introduce yourself to the Club.Please ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#17

Post by Wendell »

They are in Milwaukie, Oregon. Here's a link to their ebay listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233808632544?m ... media=COPY

From the listing:

This listing is for a complete cylinder head rebuild on both heads including a full set of new bronze valve guides and viton valve seals for the Honda GL1000/1100/1200. This service involves disassembly, cleaning and inspection of all components. Ports and chambers bead blasted. Installation of new bronze valve guides, 3 angle valve seat machining in Serdi equipment. Valve faces and tips ground and stems polished. All valve seats vacuum tested to ensure a good seal. Final assembly with new viton valve seals. This service does not include work to the rocker arm assembly but that is available as well. Performance upgrades available!

Once this service is purchased simply ship your heads to our shop and they will be completed and sent back within one week. We offer complete cylinder head machine services and custom valve train components specializing in vintage Japanese applications. Thanks for looking!
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
Wendell
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#18

Post by Wendell »

Cliff, re: Introduction, will do!
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
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gltriker
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#19

Post by gltriker »

Wendell wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:14 pm They are in Milwaukie, Oregon. Here's a link to their ebay listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233808632544?m ... media=COPY

From the listing:

This listing is for a complete cylinder head rebuild on both heads including a full set of new bronze valve guides and viton valve seals for the Honda GL1000/1100/1200. This service involves disassembly, cleaning and inspection of all components. Ports and chambers bead blasted. Installation of new bronze valve guides, 3 angle valve seat machining in Serdi equipment.

Valve faces and tips ground no

and stems polished. All valve seats vacuum tested to ensure a good seal. Final assembly with new viton valve seals. This service does not include work to the rocker arm assembly but that is available as well. Performance upgrades available!

Once this service is purchased simply ship your heads to our shop and they will be completed and sent back within one week. We offer complete cylinder head machine services and custom valve train components specializing in vintage Japanese applications. Thanks for looking!
.

Whoa! I am so thankful you posted Shumann's menu of services performed .

OEM Honda intake AND Exhaust valves are NOT designed to be valve face ground and valve lash adjuster screw contact surface on the end of the valve stem, to be "tipped"! Tipping is, as I view it, a crude step to remove rocker contact wear on the end of a valve stem.
Any Intake and Exhaust Valves determined to be not reusable are, simply, * replaced * .
Last edited by gltriker on Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#20

Post by Wendell »

Good call. I was thinking about that myself and was of the opinion that such a relatively low cost item should be replaced. I will message them and report the reply.
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#21

Post by robin1731 »

I've done a lot of gl1000 heads. I've only had one set that actually needed the guides replaced. To just replace them is not necessary I don't think. And the stock cast guides will hold up better than the bronze. I use bronze guides on KZ heads, especially the race heads, but a stock KZ1000 head has cast iron guides and we rarely "need" to replace those.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
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1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#22

Post by Wendell »

Good info, Robin, thanks. Both heads are now pulled and sitting on my kitchen table (In giant freezer bags). I did one this morning, and the other was done yesterday (80% of the work anyway) by my 12-year-old granddaughter. She now understands how an internal combustion engine works, how to use tools and how to keep them organized while working. And she thought it was fun! I call that a good day.
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
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gltriker
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#23

Post by gltriker »

Wendell wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:20 am Good info, Robin, thanks. Both heads are now pulled and sitting on my kitchen table (In giant freezer bags). I did one this morning, and the other was done yesterday (80% of the work anyway) by my 12-year-old granddaughter. She now understands how an internal combustion engine works, how to use tools and how to keep them organized while working. And she thought it was fun! I call that a good day.
How's the upper engine refurbishing project progressing , Wendell ? :-D
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
redglbx
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#24

Post by redglbx »

👍👍👍
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#25

Post by Wendell »

Hi Cliff, thanks for asking. The heads are still at the shop. I should have them by the end of next week. Once I get the engine reassembled, it will be ready to ride, technically. Brakes, engine, tires and lights, what more do I need? I mean, other than fenders, faux tank repainted, instruments...

In the meantime I'm working on my Honda 919. I replaced the fuel filter (in the tank, with the pump, of course) and in the process discovered the pump/low fuel ground wire got hot sometime in the last 18 years and melted off a good percentage of its insulation. This might be why the low fuel light goes on and off randomly. Anyway, I'm replacing that today. Waiting for the plug components to arrive from Amazon, so I can reintroduce the ground wire into the 3p plug for the fuel pump.

Oh yeah, I got an industrial endo-cam so maybe I'll use that to explore the GL1100's gas tank while waiting for the Amazon truck. This bike project has been a great source of rationalizations, I mean reasons, for buying tools!
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
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gltriker
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Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#26

Post by gltriker »

Wendell wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:15 pm Hi Cliff, thanks for asking. The heads are still at the shop. I should have them by the end of next week. Once I get the engine reassembled, it will be ready to ride, technically. Brakes, engine, tires and lights, what more do I need? I mean, other than fenders, faux tank repainted, instruments...

In the meantime I'm working on my Honda 919. I replaced the fuel filter (in the tank, with the pump, of course) and in the process discovered the pump/low fuel ground wire got hot sometime in the last 18 years and melted off a good percentage of its insulation. This might be why the low fuel light goes on and off randomly. Anyway, I'm replacing that today. Waiting for the plug components to arrive from Amazon, so I can reintroduce the ground wire into the 3p plug for the fuel pump.

Oh yeah, I got an industrial endo-cam so maybe I'll use that to explore the GL1100's gas tank while waiting for the Amazon truck. This bike project has been a great source of rationalizations, I mean reasons, for buying tools!
Inquiring, again September 29th
How's the upper engine refurbishing project progressing , Wendell ? :-D
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Wendell
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:47 pm

Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#27

Post by Wendell »

Hi Cliff,
Thanks to the help I received here, things are going pretty good. The cylinder heads returned from the machine shop with brand new valves, and I got everything back onto the bike. Doing the timing belts has become so easy that I'm a little embarrassed I had any trouble at all at the beginning. But things are clearer once you take them apart and reassembIe them. I was worried about the positioning of the cams until I realized that with the Woodruff key and the witness marks, you can't mess up that part of the job.

Everything is running smoothly. The plugs were sooty, so I cleaned them and after a hundred or so more miles I'll check them again. Some PO put a single-carb setup on this bike, so it wouldn't surprise me if they got fouled again.

I have put a total of around 200 miles on it since putting it all back together, and it has run flawlessly. The coolant drain plug crush washer and the water pump gasket are dripping no more than a few drops a week, because I re-used them both. I now have the gasket and the crush washer, but it's such a small amount of leakage I think I'll do it when the leak gets worse, or when I have to drain the coolant. Right now it's not broke enough to fix.

Re: Shocks, I ordered some Progressive 412's which should be here 2nd week of October. Once I get those, it's just paint and a few small things. I will be sure to post a pic!

Also, I just bought a 1982 Suzuki GS1100L, which I bought mostly to improve my wrenching skills. It wasn't running when I got it. I pulled, rebuilt, re-installed and synched the carbs, flushed the brakes, and rectified a few small annoyances. Rode it around the neighborhood for awhile, now we'll see if there are any leaks to be addressed.

How are things on your end?
Everybody's wearing a disguise
To hide what they've got left behind their eyes


Current
2023 Kawasaki KLR650
1981 Honda Gold Wing GL 1100 Interstate
1980 Honda CX500 Custom
2005 Honda CB900F (919)
2006 Yamaha FJR 1300 (coast to coast May 2023)
Gone
1982 Suzuki GS1100L
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
2014 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Deluxe
2014 Yamaha V Star 950
2014 Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring
2012 Triumph Bonneville (Coast to coast 2014)
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (You never forget your first!)
User avatar
gltriker
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Posts: 5091
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Location: central NY State

Re: Timing Belt install mishap -- How bad is it?

#28

Post by gltriker »

Wendell wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:31 pm Hi Cliff,
Thanks to the help I received here, things are going pretty good. The cylinder heads returned from the machine shop with brand new valves, and I got everything back onto the bike. Doing the timing belts has become so easy that I'm a little embarrassed I had any trouble at all at the beginning. But things are clearer once you take them apart and reassembIe them. I was worried about the positioning of the cams until I realized that with the Woodruff key and the witness marks, you can't mess up that part of the job.

snip-
How are things on your end?
Very Good Report there, Wendell tumb2

I'm good. Don't do too much these days. Here's my keeping busy sort of project:
viewtopic.php?p=820672#p820672
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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