GL1100 with GL1200 LTD EFI conversion

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theailer
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Re: GL1100 with GL1200 LTD EFI conversion

#16

Post by theailer »

Yeah they cost a bit. But they are made here in Sweden and I can get support in my native language which makes the price a bit easier to swallow ;)
I've also enlisted in the online starter course on https://www.hpacademy.com/ when they had a sale with 50% off.

I've seen that video as well, we are however not tuning a race vehicle so I guess the demands are a bit more modest for what we are using.
That said, the hardest bit to tune seems to be good drivability.
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Rednaxs60
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Re: GL1100 with GL1200 LTD EFI conversion

#17

Post by Rednaxs60 »

I was surprised at the cost of the various MaxxECU. I am impressed with the family of MaxxECU, and what can be done. It's more than I need as you mention. It will be nice for you to be able to cll the company and get support in your native language. Misunderstandings are common when there is a language issue, or even with the same language. Heard a saying; we are speaking the same language but we are not understanding each other.

Having mentioned this, the engine process will be the same. Installation of the EFI components, populating the tuning software with known data/settings, populating the three major tables - VE/spark - ignition timing/AFR. Going through the process of trigger angle, calculating this setting then verifying on engine at #1 cylinder TDC.

First engine start will be interesting. Will probably have to adjust the engine idle to somewhere around 2000 RPM to keep the engine operating initially, adjust the VE table cell values to get fuelling under control at this speed then reduce to where you expect the idle to be - approximately 1000 RPM with minimum MAP at normal engine operating temperature.

The base engine timing, different from trigger angle setting, is approximately 11 degrees BTDC. Engine tuning at this stage only monitors AFR readings; however, I find that using live tuning with a fairly good AFR calibrated table for our use can reduce the engine tuning phase.

The 1200 EFI engine is capable of having a fuel economy of 45 to 50 IMPG. This is quite lean, but Honda is apparently the lean burn King. AFR readings above 14.7 AFR (1.0 Lambda) are not uncommon. AFR reading of 14.7 at idle is not uncommon.

Ignition timing is next on the list, but you will probably calibrate the spark (ignition timing) table at the same time for certain MAP/RPM settings. Ignition timing is to optimize the fuel burn time so that max fuel burn is at approximately 10 to 15 degrees ATDC. Advancing ignition timing is done to compensate for the fuel ignition when an ignition event is started, fuel requires a certain amount of time to get to a full burn.

Once the engine is idling nicely at approximately 1000 RPM, can adjust the ignition timing to best value for fuel burn, little bit at a time.

At this stage, it is experimenting with component data/settings to improve engine performance and fuel economy, enabling features/functions, such as using the O2 sensor, that have been disabled/turned off for initial engine tuning. At the same time, riding and enjoying your bike.

The 1200 EFI engine will provide good drivability. Will be interesting to see how you install it.

I started my project in 2019, researching what was available. Can't believe it's been 6 years. Good thing I have had a second bike to ride in the interim.

Cheers
"When writing the Story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen."

Ernest

1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan (sold)
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
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theailer
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Re: GL1100 with GL1200 LTD EFI conversion

#18

Post by theailer »

Got the motor up on the bench, replaced the cam sensors with a cherry hall sensor(did not realize that the ones I bought before required magnets until Red mentioned it).
Sensor is not 100% aligned with the wheel but it syncs good. I'll redo the mounting bracket later, this one is merely a prototype.
Not sure what happened to the threads of the hall sensor, the supplied nuts were a PITA to thread on. That's why it looks a bit mangled.
IMG_2581.jpg

Now I've never really been afflicted by tidiness, it is an ongoing project so the mess will probably only increase with time as well.
IMG_2580.jpg
The ECU has a built in oscilloscope where one can check the VR/hall sensor inputs. Trigger(brown) is the original VR sensor on the crank with the Honda 8-toothed wheel.
DIN 1 is the first digital input which I have assigned to the hall cam sensor.
trigger_oscilloscope.png
For now the crank is triggering on falling(always trigger a VR on the fastest side, my VR sensor drops the voltages much faster than it rises) and the cam on rising voltage(to get the cam to trigger within 20-80% of a crank trigger pulse).
This worked perfectly well with no sync losses when cranking.

Added an ignition coil(a sequential coil for 4cyl but only using one input/output atm) and connected a timing light to it, then all sync went out the window when trying to crank.
I had setup the coil on the bench right next to the hall sensor and the wiring from the VR sensor and the ignition system creates quite a bit of interference.
I tried to put as much distance as possible by having the coil on top of the motor and also a steel plate under it to shield the wiring. It is visible in the 2nd pic. This worked perfectly, at least with just one coil active, not sure how it will react with all 4. Also there is no shielding on the VR sensor leads(using original leads for now), there is a shield on the ECU side though, the hall sensor wiring is not shielded at all.

The way it is currently setup leaves me with these trigger angles(first tooth after the sync signal where the ignition and fueling will start)
260degrees BTDC1 F1 mark
270degrees BTDC1 T1 mark

So those to marks on the crank is exactly 10degrees apart, with the T1 mark being 0degrees and F1 being 10degrees advance.
At least that's what I guess.
I know Red had some issues with the timing in the past but I think you also came to the same conclusion.
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Rednaxs60
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Re: GL1100 with GL1200 LTD EFI conversion

#19

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Looks good, good progress. Don't worry about the cam sensor placement. The estimate you have is a starting point for the ECU. Checking the timing by cranking the engine is where you will dial in the ignition timing. "T1" is for #1 cylinder TDC. "F1" is for engine idle timing and is approximately 11 degrees BTDC. If the crank and cam pulleys are lined up, can't hurt the engine when doing the initial #1 cylinder "0" degrees for #1 cylinder TDC.

The only trigger angle you need is at #1 TDC. There should not be any other trigger angle. Once this is set, the ECU spark table is used. You can do a timing indicator mod like I did and mark the crank trigger wheel with varying 5 degree increments on the OEM 8 tooth trigger wheel.

Set the engine so that the cam and crank pulleys are lined up as per the OEM service manual. Mark the crank trigger wheel for this setting. Every 5 mm after this is approximately 5 degrees of timing advance. Use the "F1" crankshaft mark to indicate where 11 degrees BTDC is. After this it's measure and mark.

Having mentioned this, I would recommend changing the crank VR sensor to a Hall effect sensor. Won't have to worry about Rising/Falling setting issues and no need for a VR signal conditioner. You can use either Rising or Falling for both cam and crank sensors.

I had timing issues because I wanted to reinvent the way it was done using the cam pulleys, and using a timing light not meant for a wasted spark system.

You may notice once you get the engine started that idle timing setting may need to be adjusted to suit - increase form 1 degrees BTDC to maybe 20 degrees BTDC. This is normal with an aftermarket ECU installation. You need to give the engine what it wants regardless of the OEM spec.

You will be using different fuel pressures, fuel injectors, coils and such and these all impact on the engine operation.

I will be able to share some of my settings, table values with you in the next while. Snow on the ground so road trials are put on hold.

Cheers
"When writing the Story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen."

Ernest

1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan (sold)
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
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