C5 Timing Curves

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wannabridin
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C5 Timing Curves

#1

Post by wannabridin »

Anyone know what the differences are between the 4 different timing curves on a C5 ignition? Thanks!
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ericheath
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#2

Post by ericheath »

91CE8D4C-19F2-4394-A0B6-1EFF77B0BFB4.jpeg
9B3F91C8-8EDA-455A-992A-405CFF2142BA.jpeg
I have a copy of one from Power Arc, but I am not sure if it is for a 750 or Goldwing. I bought a Power Arc for a 750 and retrofitted it to the crank if my 1200 hybrid.

If you buy the cord, you can tweak it to wherever you want it.
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Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
rockyhayes
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#3

Post by rockyhayes »

I believe the answer is: whatever you wish them to be. I have C5 on a recent GL1000 acquisition, and have been trying like the devil to school myself on what it can do and how to make it do it. Here are a couple of links that may be helpful:

http://www.c5ignitions.com/classroom--timing-maps.html
From here, select "MODIFY MAPS AND PROGRAM IGNITION" to download a video Tutorial. I believe you can also download his software from this page.

Here's a different walk through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Jic0-ZcSY

Good Luck - to us both!!

Rocky
Present: 77 GL1000 x 2, 75 GL1000 x 2, 13 R1200RT
Past: 03 ST1300, 94 R1100RS, 97 F650, 84 GL1200, 86 XJ700X, 72 KZ900, 69 CB750
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Whiskerfish
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#4

Post by Whiskerfish »

Someone please remind me in a day or two and I will move this to the reference forum.
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and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
wannabridin
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#5

Post by wannabridin »

Thanks so much guys! I bought the kit from Pony Ruiz and didn't come with the rotary switch but no biggie. I have a programmable box similar to this on a spirit 750 of mine, but haven't had a chance to install it either. But I know if these are set right, they sure can make a difference in how things run!!!
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flyin900
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#6

Post by flyin900 »

The rotary switch was an option to purchase I believe on that C5. I recall reading about that system on their website a few years back. Seems to be a well liked product by those who run them, so it will be interesting to hear how how it works.
Current Bikes:
1967 CL175K0 Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1978 CB550K Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1981 GL1100 Standard model - Sept 2018 cosmetic refresh, nice original condition.
2 X 1983 CB1000 Custom - Both low mileage with full cosmetic restoration back to factory new.
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ericheath
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#7

Post by ericheath »

Any type of switch will work. I used one from a lamp. Just figure the poles of the switch and coordinate the colors as the above pics show. Others have used Hobbs switches to change the curve based on vacuum load.

The best part of this ignition is the ease of setting timing.

There are specific warnings about which wires get power when setting up.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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ericheath
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#8

Post by ericheath »

Just looked on the C5 website which still has an installation manual online. It says to time it before hooking up the coils. I didn’t see a wiring diagram.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
wannabridin
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#9

Post by wannabridin »

Yes, I noticed that during the install as well. I have relay power slots to use for ignition and coil power, but I need to ensure everything done correctly, because it's not like spare parts are readily available for these.

Speaking of spares - does anyone know that coils are used? Not the 4 pole tower, but the smaller ones with the towers 90 degrees to on another?

Also, resistor plugs one range cooler are required, so I need to get a set of those. The wires seem to be easy enough to source if needed.
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ericheath
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Re: C5 Timing Curves

#10

Post by ericheath »

C5 and PowerArc used their own coils. I think they were called section and bobbin coils, but I don’t know what that means. They have to be different to supply the three sparks so close to one another. That said, they have used/offered several different coils. I never found any info on why the coils and wires were so special. If you look at the “coil on” times, the first spark gets roughly 25-30 degrees of saturation time. The second and third spark come 10-15 degrees later. I’m not sure if a spark at these points would help. Cylinder pressures would be pretty high from the first spark still. Hasn’t MSD kind of gone by the wayside in the motor world? I don’t recall seeing it pushed like it was 20+ years ago.

I do not recall the recommendation for cooler plugs, but do recall they also suggest a smaller spark plug gap. I recall trying the cooler plugs, but they ran darker. Mine would miss at higher rpm with a larger gap.

For all the hype, I don’t think mine performed much different than a Dyna. Keep in mind that mine was setup as a cb750 ignition and the timing curves could have been different as well as the saturation times and it was on a 1200. I never got around to buying the cord to connect to a laptop and tweak the timing some. It started easier and might have warmed up quicker. Definitely easier to time. And held up well despite me hamfisting the installation. When I dumped the bike and brought it home it wouldn’t start and had no spark. It turns out mud was caked in between the optic sensor and trigger wheel. Cleaned it up and it was fine even though the trigger wheel was bent. The motor started but ran poorly. Most likely bent valves causing low compression. I haven’t gotten around to tearing it apart and probably won’t. I look at other bikes especially Valkyries but still want a 1200.

As for service, the guy at PowerArc was very helpful and even answered my emails with phone calls. I was wondering why it was cutting out at 8 to 8.5k. He figured it was running lean. He was probably right. When I switched to the 1200 heads, the cams weren’t giving much pull that high anyways. The 1000 cams seemed to still be pulling pretty well up to where they would miss.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
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